Pulling back...

[daisyhill]

What does this mean?

Over a year ago, we bought a 24 year old quarter horse to play with. I haven't had a lot of horse experience--riding with my aunt as a child (her horses lived behind our house), and borrowing our neighbor's naughty ponies when I was a teen-ager.

To begin with, Candy seemed just perfect. She was a bit lazy, and had to be persuaded that I really meant to ride all the way around the hayfield, but we got along just fine. She is always easy to catch, easy to clean her hooves, easy to saddle, no problem except that she doesn't want to move very fast or work very hard. I learned when she refused to go where I told her that walking around in circles usually distracted her enough so she would do as I said. I would have said that her only real faults were being lazy and thinking only about food. Her ground manners aren't perfect--she can be a bit pushy, but it never seemed overwhelming, and she responded well to being asked to be respectful. She was pretty thin when we got her, but fattened up on pasture pretty quickly. She had been living in a boarding stable, and had bite marks on her rump, so I guessed that she didn't get along too well with the other horses, and was last on the hay-line.

Now, after a pretty much trouble free year, she has suddenly started yanking back on her halter when I tie her for grooming or tacking up. The first time this happened, after a ride, I thought something had scared her. I just talked to her soothingly, and finished taking her saddle off. (Later I thought back and realized that this had happened one other time as well, when I was washing her. She had sidled over, and knocked over a five gallon bucket, which rattled and clanked. Again, I assumed she had spooked herself, talked to her soothingly, and finished washing her. It didn't seem to be too big a deal.)

A few weeks ago, we arranged for a friend to give the children some riding lessons. This friend has had horses all her life, and lest I give a wrong impression here, I chose her because I have seen her horses and her children, and how she is with them, and felt that she would be the perfect person. She is soft spoken, gentle, firm, kind, confident--just what you would want to see. Her daughters are sweet, respectful girls, skillful horsewomen without being a bit show-off. Her oldest son is training to be a farrier, and has been doing Candy's hooves ever since we got her. He is great kid, a senior in high-school, and has an easy, confident way with horses.

All that to say, at the very first lesson, Candy suddenly had a fit, yanking back on her halter, several minutes after her saddle was put on. None of us could find a thing wrong with the saddle or anything else, she was tied where I always groom her, and nothing was out of the ordinary. After that time, I could not do a thing with her without her erupting at some point and fighting being tied. I bought a brand-new nylon lead rope, because I was afraid she would bust her old cotton one, and then lo and behold, the second time I tied her with the new rope, she pulled back so hard that she broke the hook on the new lead and fell over backwards. I had tied her up high and short, so I didn't think she would have enough leverage to do much pulling, but I guess she did. This was after she had stood like she was asleep while I groomed her, cleaned out her hooves, and put the saddle on. The cinch was not tightened yet, and I had just turned my back to pick something up.

My friend offered to take Candy to her home and watch her behavior for a week or two, to see if she could get to know her well enough to guess what was going on. I gratefully accepted, and she has had her for four days now. She said that Candy was a perfect angel for the first few days, and then yesterday tried her pulling back trick again. I had told my friend that I assumed that I was doing something wrong, but she said that she didn't think it was that simple.

In Candy's previous life, she had spent time as a lesson horse, and then had been owned for six years by the teen-age girl we bought her from. She was her first horse, and she was very into Parelli Natural Horsemanship (I do not know a great deal about this, but have gathered that some love it and some hate it). The girl had a younger horse, and since her horses were boarded, didn't feel that she could afford to keep both. I saw her ride Candy, it it seemed obvious that she related well to her, and that Candy was very well trained, and responsive (at least to this girl). As I said earlier, for a whole year, I had a generally positive experience with Candy. I rode about once a week, because I have to work like everyone else. I occasionally had some trouble with her either turning around and trying to go back to the barn, or backing up naughtily when she decided that she didn't want to go where I said, but I figured that this was because she recognized my lack of experience and was just checking to see if she really had to obey. I thought we were working through these problems, and she was responding to me. I feel guilty, like I have ruined her some way. I know I'm not a very skillful rider, but Candy doesn't like to go faster than a walk anyway. I tried always to be careful to release pressure when she obeyed, and to be very gentle and not get irritated when she was a little difficult. I treated her about the way I would treat a recalcitrant two year old-- "Yes, honey, I know you don't want to but this is what we are doing now," and she would pretty much submit.

If any of you horse people have survived reading this long story, I would be interested to hear any thoughts you might have about her sudden change in behavior. To be honest, the violent pulling back really spooked me, I was afraid that she was going to hurt herself (or me), and can't figure out why she suddenly started this. The last time I rode her, I felt like she had turned into a different horse. Miss Hyde is no fun.

[corrae]

"The last time I rode her, I felt like she had turned into a different horse. Miss Hyde is no fun."

Is she riding like a different horse now as well? Have you ruled out pain? If her back or hips are hurting, this could explain this non-typical behavior. I would also recommend getting: the blocker tie ring. (google it). It really helps when horses pull back. I'd also recommend getting a rope halter with the lead rope attached.

[robynsa]

Have you re-fitted the saddle since she gained weight?

Does she do it if you haven't yet put the saddle on?

[suzorse]

you also need to tie her wither height ,as to high and they can put their weight into the pull, I had a gelding that was perfect in every way but he would pull back every time
when he was first tied up, then stand quiet for hours , never knew why
Suzanne
but once they learn they can break loose when pulling back then it be comes a habit

[SebFarm]

Does she randomly go up in the air even without the halter on? We had a old rescue ottb who developed head shaking issues. You'd be walking him to the barn and he'd just lose it, throw his head up, then later he added rearing to it.

[SebFarm]

www.thehorse.com/articles/10166/headshaking-in-horses

[lively]

Have you checked the saddle fit? Sounds like possibly a pain reaction. If it is a matter of being a snot and figuring out she can get out of being tied (doubt this is the problem though) .. you could try a neck rope( I do not mean a perelli one I mean the type the Amish use) in conjunction with the halter. It will be scary at first but they quickly figure out that it is best to stand. The rope used on the bottom one I would not suggest the style only pictured so as to give an idea of how it hooks through. The top one is a proper neck rope.(notice the clip with a ring as opposed to a simple knotted rope)

[lively]

I had to do the above with Ms.Pig as after about 5 to 10 minutes of standing there she decides she is ready to move on. She broke a number of halters,pulled up posts and so forth until I tried this. She now sucks it up and stands tied.

[robynsa]

lively - that's a cool idea. My geldings will both decide they've had enough and pull back/up and break halters/ropes/posts. Drives me crazy.

How is the rope fastened around the neck? I can't see clearly from the pics. Is it done in such a way that it loosens immediately when the horse stops pulling? Should a person use a specific type of rope?

[lively]

Not my images on any of these but maybe this one will show a bit better .... honestly a fairly simple thing. Word of advice though when you are first working the kinks out .... do not hook to anything that can break or be easily pulled up as you will likely end up with a whole slew of other problems. I used a freaking huge oak tree with my mare. Used with an inner tube (think tire not float) it can be a softer learning curve. I did it kind of slow with Pig slowly increasing the time she was tied up. Ultimately ended up leaving her tied for a few hours at a time to make certain it was fairly well ingrained.I made a point of unhooking her at different times so she did not set a time limit in her head.She is very smart and picks things up fast. The first time ..honestly scared me a bit because everything I learned over the years was to release them if they panic.Only exception to that rule was once years ago Mr.Ronnie fixing a horse problem like Ms.Pig had. He didn't use a neck rope but did use the tire inner tube and a rope halter. Like I said the first time was hard not to rush in and release the rope but she settled down faster than expected once she figured out it wasn't budging. Definitely use it in conjunction with a halter.. helps to keep the head/neck aligned while doing their freak.

[lively]

Just a note if you decide to do an internet search in regards to it you need to specify Amish neck rope otherwise all you really get are the Perelli ones that pop up.

[robynsa]

So clever, thank you!

[karenp]

A couple of ideas, could she have been more sedate because she was underfed and now is showing her true colors. As you kept her at a boarding facility, could someone have mistreated her? We had an OTTB had been abused before he came to us,he was a mellow horse, but could not be tied. He would pull back until something broke. We just tacked and groomed him in the stall.

[Nonesuch Melissa]

Second the Blocker tie ring. Horses that pull back (I've owned two and seen several others) seem to do it once and then kind of get addicted to the challenge. They get progressively worse over time, eventually hurting themselves or their handler. The Blocker allows them to pull back without resistance and sort of takes the fun out of it. My mare stopped within a few times of using the ring.

It's a good idea to get a grip on this behavior before they start puling while being led or rearing which seems to be the progression. One of my pullers was a stallion and otherwise had great manners and was ridden daily. However he could not be stopped from pulling back when tied and was eventually sold on for this reason.

[suzorse]

you never want a neck rope to tighten ,as it can strangle the horse, every one I had seen used back in the old days was done with a knot that would not let the rope pull tight
but I never used 1 was told by an old trainer to maker a crupper rope type thing that went under the tail and threw the halter , and was tied to the post with string light cord
and was tied where just before the horse hit the end of the rope the crupper part would pull tight ,but if they hit hard enough to pullback the string would break,so they punished them selves before they hit the end
never did try it though
Suzanne
and the inner tube is it gives when they pull back and pulls against them
great took for teaching to tie

[daisyhill]

Wow, these are all really interesting thoughts. Thanks for chiming in, everyone.

Just to clarify, karenp, she was kept at a boarding facility before we got her, so I don't know for sure what her experiences there might have been.

I wondered about the saddle fit and pain also, but the pulling back has not been consistent with putting on the saddle. The very first time, it was when I was taking the saddle off. Twice, she has done it with out the saddle even being in sight.

My friend also suggested the rope halter, as being less comfortable to pull back on than the nylon strap halter I've been using. I've never seen the neck rope trick Lively mentioned, but I'll look into that as well.

Thanks so much just for talking--it is nice to hear different ideas and perspectives.

Melissa, you exactly describe how Candy acts. Once she started, she has gotten steadily and rapidly worse. I was so frustrated that she actually managed to break her new lead, because I know that just gave her the idea that she can get away with this.

The thing that really puzzles me is why this started up just now. Of course, I can't rule out the thought that this is an old behavior, that her previous owner had worked on and gotten past, and she is regressing with ignorant me.

[daisyhill]

I wonder how I would figure out if pain is the issue. She still rolls quite athletically, and trots around the pasture with apparent ease. I've never seen anything to make me think she was in pain, but I'm not sure I'd know.

[SebFarm]

Oct 30, 2014 7:13:13 GMT -5 karenp said:

A couple of ideas, could she have been more sedate because she was underfed and now is showing her true colors. As you kept her at a boarding facility, could someone have mistreated her? We had an OTTB had been abused before he came to us,he was a mellow horse, but could not be tied. He would pull back until something broke. We just tacked and groomed him in the stall.

My thoroughbred used to be a high end 3 day horse. He was abused badly. He cannot be tied, the person who got him from the show world tried to tie him. He reared over backwards and landed on his back breaking the halter every time. His whites of his eyes show and he just freaks out. Because of this he can never be tied. You also can't walk torwards him carrying a riding crop, or hold a riding crop while riding.

[wyomama]

The thing is, especially at her age and experience, even if she *is* in pain, which I highly doubt, pulling back is not an acceptable way to express that. If it were the saddle (which I doubt) she could pin her ears, duck her back, stomp her feet, even kick at the girth - she's got a wide range of options for getting your attention and communicating. Pulling back is not okay. Even if she spooked, a horse would normally pull back and then the pressure on the poll kicks the brain into gear and they quit and stand braced against the lead or bounce forward.

IME, a horse that pulls back is doing it because they are either done with what you are doing and just going to leave, or because they are bored and want to ratchet up the excitement level and be the center of attention.  They *learn* to pull back.  At some point, they've either broken something, or (more likely) someone has panicked and let them loose and then petted and clucked all over them trying to figure out "what's wrong" and of course, not gone on with the ride, or the shots, or the shoeing, or whatever was supposed to happen that day, and a 24 year old mare who has been around the block a time or two is totally going to know how to work that program to her benefit.

Horses don't do ANYTHING unless there's a payout.  You have to figure out what the payout is and take that away.  Obviously, getting loose is one.  Creating enough drama to distract you from your goal is one.  Being the center of focused concerned attention is the big one. 

So. You make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult.   The neck ropes are a good way to do that,  because they work without your interference - but that's only dealing with the physical part, you've also got to address the mental.   Just make sure you tie to something solid, I second the tire inner-tube if you can, and always have a sharp knife handy just in case, and MOST importantly, put on your bored face.  You have to let her work it out herself.  You cannot rush, fret, cluck, or show concern.  At 24 years old, she's probably too smart to really hurt herself.  If she does throw herself down, let her lay there for awhile and soak in her embarrassment before you cut her loose and tell her she's an idiot.  

[wyomama]

She was a bit lazy, and had to be persuaded that I really meant to ride all the way around the hayfield, but we got along just fine. She is always easy to catch, easy to clean her hooves, easy to saddle, no problem except that she doesn't want to move very fast or work very hard. I learned when she refused to go where I told her that walking around in circles usually distracted her enough so she would do as I said. I would have said that her only real faults were being lazy and thinking only about food. Her ground manners aren't perfect--she can be a bit pushy, but it never seemed overwhelming, and she responded well to being asked to be respectful. She was pretty thin when we got her, but fattened up on pasture pretty quickly. She had been living in a boarding stable, and had bite marks on her rump, so I guessed that she didn't get along too well with the other horses, and was last on the hay-line.

I may sound like an old meany, but I really think you have a smart, dominant mare who has got your number and is prank calling it on a regular basis.

A "lazy" horse is an intelligent horse - they are going to make you insist, or be sure of what you are asking, and if they can get you to give it up by being a little passive-aggressive, so much the better. A horse that is "thinking only about food" is a horse that's pretty sure that she's running the show, and not paying attention to the unworthy human. A horse that is "a bit pushy" is dominant and pushing the limits, testing to see at what point (if ever) you're actually going to get serious about what you are requiring of her. An older horse with bite marks on her rump is usually *not* the one who is last on the hay-line, she's somewhere in the middle, or even #2 or #3, and is always testing the limits and the hierarchy. She's not falling into line at the dirty look or the pinned ear or the lifted foot, she's MAKING that other horse prove that they mean what they say by not giving it up until they chase her off with teeth bared.  More than once.   And she's doing the exact same thing with you.

This horse has got a lot to teach you - about horses, about horse psychology, but mostly about yourself.