Crypto...better

[lew92]

One of the most recent foster calves we got was a bit punkish a week ago...which saved he and his buddy from dehorning and castration for the time being.

His lungs sounded a bit wheezy, so I gave him a dose of DuraPen...then kind of forgot in the midst of my own illness.

On Sunday, I noticed he wasn't nursing very well and that he had diarrhea. Well, of course, because I also forgot about following up with probiotics after the antibiotics.

So I tried bottling him electrolytes with added probiotics, only he had "stupid tongue syndrome" and I started wondering about white muscle disease. It took over half an hour to get a pint of the electrolytes into him.

But that evening he nursed well. Slowly, but he got plenty to eat from the cow.

Monday was a hellish day between DH's appointment for truck repairs and my sinus pain - hopefully the end of this crap flu I've got. So treatment of the calf came in between the other stuff I was trying to get done. I gave him probiotics and a shot of LA200, planning on following up on that EOD. He was still stupid about the electrolytes but nursed on the cow well again in the evening, so I thought he would be okay.

To go out yesterday morning and find him flat out and refusing to even try to get up.

Vet says it is crypto, get him out in the sunshine and run 2 liters of Lactated Ringers into him over the course of the day. Also, probiotic paste rather than the powdered, as reconstituting can leave something to be desired, plus give him 3-5 cc of the DuraPen orally per day.

I handmilked the cow last night so I could have some milk to give him, too. I used a 60cc syringe with a piece of soft tubing taped on (electrical tape works really well for this) and kept the milk in small jars in a pail of hot water. He was suckling on the tube and by the end of getting a quart of milk into him, his suckling was stronger, though he tired out easily.

***I want to emphasize that this method of getting some nourishment into a calf should ONLY be used if the calf is suckling, even weakly, and is readily swallowing. If the calf is not, using a syringe can lead to aspiration and then pneumonia and the calf will end up even worse than before.***

I know that is nowhere near to what he needs, but along with the LR, I hope it was enough to support his system for overnight.

Keeping my fingers crossed and praying hard that I go out to a calf that is wanting to try this morning.

[rileycows]

Good luck!

[rd200]

When I had issues with my foster calf this summer I was going to run lactated ringers subQ and my vet said they actually dont like using LR anymore because it suppressed their suck reflex. They use another liquid but I cant remember what it is. Something they can only get I think. Its like Calf pedialyte, I can't remember the name, I wish I could. But a dehydrated calf is a dead calf soon so id totally use the LR if that's what I have.

Ive used LR with Bicarb in it which is like the most amazing combo ever. Calves will be literally on deaths doorstep, flat out and down and you dont even get the whole bag of Bicarb in them and they are already trying to stand and suck. 10 minutes later they are standing and sucking on your leg! Our old vet office back home would mix up the right amounts of Bicarb and put it in bags of LR. Magic I tell ya but that has to go in the vein, subQ with the Bicarb is a no-go.

Sorry, that was a long tangent. I hope your little guy makes it. Crypto calves look terrible!

[rd200]

The bicarb/LR combo works awesome unless the calf is toxic already. If they are, the Bicarb fixes stuff too quick and it floods their system with toxins and they die 5 minutes later. (I'm sure my vet explained it better to me than I am here)
But on the 100s of calves I've used it on, I think only 3 died.

[justonecow]

Sounds like you had a lovely day. Hope things improve for you and the calf quickly.

[lew92]

Well, no improvement but he is still breathing. So he got another liter of LR, more penicillin, more probiotics, and I got almost a quart of milk in him using a plastic soda bottle and a lamb nipple with the end opened up a bit extra. With me doing most of the work of squeezing the bottle while he kinda/sorta chewed on it.

He makes no effort to even think about standing, so I sat on my milking stool and had him propped over my legs to hold him up.

If there is no improvement tonight, I will probably put him down.

We had people come to look at the three steers we have up for sale and while we were watching them, I noticed that the 10 month old steer was breathing rapidly and had his head hanging...So I look at Schwartz, the 11 month old and he is acting the same.

We had them castrated a week ago.

So I was able to get 10 ccs of penicillin into Schwartz, but had to do a poke and try-to-push it in with with the 10 month old. I maybe got 7 ccs into him, at most.

I could sure use a break.

[simplynaturalfarm]

The calfs suckling reflex gone probably had more to do with being acidotic than anything else. Really need to fix that or nothing else you do will help, especially with crypto.

They will die if you do the bicarb too much at once which is why you start on the low end and if in half hour no response, you re - administer. Your calves that died from it were probably too far gone.

With crypto it is the supportive that will keep them alive so the iv fluids, bicarb to fix the blood acidosis and electrolytes to fix the imbalances. Charcoal supplements are beneficial and bioniche scour formula works extremely well - has charcoal. I know your vet can get it for you so you should ask them for some! It is added to milk and bottle fed. Really if there were three things I could tell calf raisers to have on hand, it would be immunoboost, bioniche electrolytes and bioniche scour formula. Literally saved hundreds of calves with no abx d needed 99% of the time as calves with scours die of dehydration most of the time, not abx deficiency. Big producers and farmers don't want the hassle of bottle feeding electrolytes for a few days and insist on and which don't help much unless it is that kind of scours.
Crypto is tough - praying for you to have strength you need and no aches and pains (or fewer!!)

[lew92]

I do have activated charcoal, so I can give him some of that.

I've had to put off my final knee injection set for 2 weeks because of having the flu, the first two sets were really starting to help before this interruption and now it feels like I've gone back downhill. But probably because of being sick and having to fight with calves who don't want to live.

[marseydoats]

Lew, I hope your calves get better, and I'm sorry about your knees.

[lew92]

Thanks! I truly appreciate it.

[dunderi]

Mar 29, 2017 15:34:13 GMT -5 simplynaturalfarm said:

The calfs suckling reflex gone probably had more to do with being acidotic than anything else. Really need to fix that or nothing else you do will help, especially with crypto.

They will die if you do the bicarb too much at once which is why you start on the low end and if in half hour no response, you re - administer. Your calves that died from it were probably too far gone.

With crypto it is the supportive that will keep them alive so the iv fluids, bicarb to fix the blood acidosis and electrolytes to fix the imbalances. Charcoal supplements are beneficial and bioniche scour formula works extremely well - has charcoal. I know your vet can get it for you so you should ask them for some! It is added to milk and bottle fed. Really if there were three things I could tell calf raisers to have on hand, it would be immunoboost, bioniche electrolytes and bioniche scour formula. Literally saved hundreds of calves with no abx d needed 99% of the time as calves with scours die of dehydration most of the time, not abx deficiency. Big producers and farmers don't want the hassle of bottle feeding electrolytes for a few days and insist on and which don't help much unless it is that kind of scours.
Crypto is tough - praying for you to have strength you need and no aches and pains (or fewer!!)

Agree with all here to the +100

Saved my little flat calf the other night

Figured if it was gonna die anyway, me stabbing it's jugular, and slowly running in a solution of saline & bicarb (because we live in such a rural podunk we cant even get LR) the effect was almost immediate.

And that if i buggered it up the calf wouldnt be any more/less dead.

I was 100ml in when she started sucking & chewing. Followed by a bowel movement.

[dunderi]

Mar 29, 2017 15:45:11 GMT -5 lew92 said:

I do have activated charcoal, so I can give him some of that.

I've had to put off my final knee injection set for 2 weeks because of having the flu, the first two sets were really starting to help before this interruption and now it feels like I've gone back downhill. But probably because of being sick and having to fight with calves who don't want to live.

I wish i could come and do your calf stuff for you :/

[lew92]

Do you know how many of us wanted to do the same for you just a few short weeks back?

Thank you, sweetie!

[dunderi]

Did you see the vid? It's that quick. I know I look like cold salted porridge (it'd been a rough few days) but I was given really great advice and she's still breathing!

[corrie]

I hope things improve for you, Karen.

[eljay]

Good luck with it Karen. I hope they turn the corner quickly.

[lew92]

He was doing better tonight. I ran in the last liter of LR while I milked the cow, then fed him a half gallon of milk!

I had a covered pail of really hot water and two containers so that I could keep the milk warm in one container while syringing him milk from the other one. He wanted to suck, but is still weak about it, so didn't get much out of the bottle, even with the lamb nipple on it.

But he was picking his head up and searching, instead of just laying there waiting for me to do all the work.

I'm going to take out a bottle of electrolytes - and my two containers in a pail of hot water system - in the wee hours of the night. I really don't want to buy any more of the LR, but if I can get him to take a gallon of electrolytes and a gallon of milk orally, splitting each into two feedings and alternating milk and electrolytes, maybe he will pull through.

I now give him a 10% chance of making it, where I had him at about 2% this afternoon.

Oh, and I was able to take a two hour nap late this afternoon. That helped a LOT!

[nina]

I don't know how frequently you get sinus headaches, but I was getting terrible headaches that would last for 3 days. Hay and chicken feed are my triggers. You can but paper masks really cheaply on line. They are comfortable to wear around the barn, disposable and really worth the trouble of buying and wearing. Not only do I get a bad headache if I get a whiff of hay dust but a lot joint pain too. Hope your calf is feeling better.

[lew92]

I have huge allergies to mold and dust, so just being in the barn triggers me. I've tried the masks, but I get really claustrophobic in them and just can't do it.

The alarm is set for 3am...it's almost like calving watch!

[susaq]

Glad he's doing a little better. Nap time is not wasted on us adults! Love my naps in the chair when things are done. Praying for you & your calf!