Milk Training Rant!!! Tell Me What I Already Know..Please?!

[trina b]

Tulah calved on Thursday morning, the calf nursed well, and I milked her at 12 hours-ish post calving. The first night she was a pain, as expected, though she never kicked me, just kicked my hands off her udder. I had a helper with me, keeping her distracted with hay in her stanchion feeder. It took an hour or so, and I got 5 quarts from mostly just her back 2 quarters (Tillie nurses the fronts & leaves the rear ones). I put it in the freezer for future calf emergencies & considered it a success.
 Last night went better, I was back inside a full half hour sooner! I had a helper keeping her distracted, and got 1 & 1/2 gallons!! Very nice!!
Tonight, all my helpers were gone, so I was on my own. I knew it'd take longer, since I'd have to stop periodically to stuff more hay in the feeder, but no worries, that was fine. (I plan to wean her off needing the food distraction, but not just yet) Except Tulah was in a mood....  She would stand fairly well until I'd relax & think I could almost enjoy milking her short, stubby, hard-to-grasp teats, then she'd kick at my hands. Or she'd kick if I switched teats. Or if she couldn't get a good enough bite of hay. Or if....
I had taken several extra washcloths out, and had put extra peroxide in the teat dip cup, and I used them, trying to make sure the milk didn't get contaminated. I milk into a pitcher held in one hand while I milk with the other, so I can get it out of the way quickly. Nothing got in the pitcher that wasn't milk, so I guess that's a win.
My milking "stall" is really a roof with a wall on one side & a stall area under it that is split into 3 covered areas, with a dirt floor. Elsie pees in there almost every time she gets milked--she doesn't seem to care what I try doing to stop her. So it's already muddy. Then Tulah peed in there tonight, too. And pooped. I pitch forked the poop out, but it's not "clean", and her feet were mucky. So, every time she kicked my hands off, I had to check to see if she got anything on her udder. Often times she hadn't, but sometimes I'd have to put the pitcher down, clean her off, clean my hands again, and start over.
 Telling her "NO!" in my mom voice didn't work, elbowing her thigh didn't work, kicking her didn't work. Even threatening to use a belly rope wouldn't make her stop kicking my hands off! Lol
I did try using my lead rope as a belly rope, which sort of worked for about 10 minutes, until she & I both realized I couldn't get it tight enough, so I put it around her near foot so I could tie it back. As soon as she realized it was holding her foot (not even tied yet, I was just putting pressure on it to get her foot moved back a little) she started kicking like crazy. I just stood out of range holding the rope with pressure on it until she settled down, which was easy to wait it out, since I was then focused more on getting the muck out of my eye that flew off her foot!!!!! Nice!
 After a couple minutes, she settled down enough for me to tie her foot back. Not as far back as I'd have liked, but farther than she wanted, so it was an ok compromise, lol. And her trying to kick my hand off her udder became ineffective.
 It took about 15 minutes, maybe less, to finish emptying those two rear quarters, and we were done. I will be tying her foot back for a long time, I believe.
When I put her back in with little Tillie (who has her mama's attitude, only stronger, Yikes!!) and Tillie was eagerly emptying the front quarters, I got a glimpse of her rear teats.... They were full again!! Well, not as full as when I started, but they definitely had milk again!! UGH!!
It was probably not the right thing to do, but I pretended I hadn't seen that & came inside to strain the milk...I had just spent an hour & a half milking her, and neither of us were in the mood to start over!
Did I mention that during the most kick-y part of milking tonight we had a thunder storm, complete with very loud hail on the metal roof? That was cool (partly sarcasm, partly truth). Could that have caused part of her angst? She didn't seem frightened, though. 
So, I got muck in my eye, and a cut on my arm from the post I tied her foot to. And a gallon & a half from just her back 2 quarters. I suppose this isn't terrible for it being only the 3rd time she's ever been milked...
Tomorrow I start milking her TAD, right? She's producing too much for OAD milking, isn't she?
She will become a good milk cow right? I know she's not the nightmare some 1st calf heifers are that I've read about on here, so can I safely hope that she'll be reasonable soon??
And that milking her won't always take an hour & a half?
Since she's holding up for her calf, should I be milking out all 4 quarters? Then bring in the calf & milk out the backs again?
I know she'll settle down & be a good milk cow. Her mama did. She will too. I just need people who have done this to remind me, reassure me, that what I know is true. She will.
And give me guidance on OAD or TAD milking.
Well, thank you for reading this small book of a rant! I feel better.

[Kelsey]

Just relax and give her a break.
She can't control herself due to the hormones associated with letdown - that makes her poop and pee at milking time. It always takes a week or two for that to stop.
Don't make a big fuss about it - just ignore and keep milking.
Same with the kicking - she's probably sore and fretting about her calf. Just keeping milking and don't get mad. She'll settle down.

My cows always get a free pass the first week or two. In fact, I don't even try to keep the milk for the first week simply so I am not feeling pressured to keep it clean (I'll keep a clean half gallon when possible, but most goes to the pigs when I'm hand milking that first week). If machine milking, it's a little easier to keep the milk clean.
By the time the first week or so goes by, the cows usually settle down and there's no need for correction.

[trina b]

Ok, so thanks for your voice of reason, Kelsey! I need that, lol. She was the first calf born here, and I've touched her all over since birth to get her ready for this, so I have emotions involved. I just want so much for her to be an awesome milk cow. I try to reason with myself and be logical, but sometimes I just need someone else's voice of reason! Someone who has done this herself.
And maybe I'll not try sooo hard to keep the milk clean for the next few days, so that pressure will be off. Thanks for the suggestion!!

[susaq]

Do you have her calf where she can't see her? If so then she is fretting over where her calf is. Try putting the calf on a lead & tie her up by Tulah's head. This should calm her down. Then milk her out as much as possible on all four quarters. When you can get no more milk, let the calf nurse on one front quarter. You will see or feel Tulah bag up. When she does milk like crazy with or without the calf still nursing. You may have to take the calf off of her if you are a bit slow.

Tulah will get better. This is all new & she is trying to be a good mom. Chin up it gets easier.

[trina b]

Where the headgate is, Tulah can look through the calf stall into the maternity pen where Tillie is, so she can usually see her. But she does know there's a separation between them.
I'll have to bring Tillie in with me, partly to help Tulah settle down, and partly for better let down of milk, lol.

[marseydoats]

Just a suggestion, you might find it easier to milk into a stainless steel pail. It will be a lot easier on your hands. Just figure the first week or so, most of the milk will go to the chickens because it has dirt in it. We have a frying pan spatter screen that only covers most of the pail, and dh could direct the milk streams so they flowed thru there (not me!)
Thunderstorms still affect my cow's let down, and she's on her 4th lactation. When we had the derecho, and the barn roof peeled off like somebody had taken a can opener to it while we were milking, well she got upset and anxious for about a week after that. They don't like any change in their routine, especially loud ones.
Hang in there, it will get better! (I used to cry when I had to milk by myself)

[Debbie Lincoln]

She is kicking you off her udder but not kicking YOU! That alone is huge! It WILL get better. My most recent "trainee" Elvira swiped at me every day for three days until I got an extra calf to help with the milking. Four months later when I milked her again (recently), she didn't kick once.
I would consider letting the calf in FIRST to empty one quarter (a back one) and then you milk. Or milk WHILE the calf is nursing.

[grassfood]

I think it is a great idea to tie her back leg for a week or two. This way you will not get hurt or frustrated, and she will learn not to kick. Even the sweetest cows take a bit of training, and it also will help you get faster, so she does not get too bored. I prefer milking once a day and leaving the calf on 24/7. If she is super tight and giving a huge amount of milk in the beginning, you can milk her twice a day for a few weeks or a month, if you like. From what I understand you are milking into a pitcher? That is great, but if you can have a milk pail with a lid, or a stainless steel pot with a lid, then pour the clean milk from your pitcher from time to time into the covered pot, that way in case something happens while you are milking to get it dirty, you have a pail of clean milk. If you have a big milk strainer that fits on a half gallon mason jar, you could get that step done, and go ahead and set that up in your milking room and pour the milk from your pitcher from time to time in the strainer/jar, and you're done.

[trina b]

So today went MUCH better!! I had low expectations on keeping any milk, so I didn't stress about cleanliness. This morning all the milk stayed clean, so it's in the fridge. Tonight's milk got contaminated immediately, so i finished milking & fed it to the chickens.
And I did put my smaller bucket under her & just milked straight into it, & didn't worry about missing the bucket. Her teats naturally aim oddly, no matter how I place my fingers, so it's hard to milk her two-handed & get it all into one container. Which didn't matter, because I wasn't "expecting" to keep the milk anyway! Hopefully I'll get the hang of aiming her as time goes on, lol.
I did tie her foot back both times, and will just continue that til she consistently doesn't try kicking.
Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement. And the reminder to just relax!

[mummaducka]

I wrote a whole big spiel for you and then lost it a week or so ago
But i wanted to definitely add something that has worked really well for my newest cow Maggie who has settled nicely after trying to kick my head in at the start. She is on her second calf and had never been milked before. My gertie also tried to kick my head in relentlessly all through her lactation. She has had severla calves and had always been milked- go figure!
Anyway i always tie only the leg closest to me, just slightly back, and low, but not far back enough that they could lose their balance and fall on me. I start milking on the far side and then usually by the time i go to the side closest to me they are more settled or have finished their feed and might be more squirmy so they can't kick me as easily.
Anyway the latest trick i have worked out is when you feel the cow shift ready to lift that far leg you slightly push the udder away from you- you have the teats in your hands so just gently push away towards that lifting leg. Hence when the cow kicks/ swipes she will actually get her own udder. Maggie has now completely stopped lifting her leg to swipe my fingers off her teats. I am stunned it has taken me this long to work this out. But i will definitely be using this when gertie calves next and I'm milking her!!

[Perry]

I was going to suggest tying her back legs or a hobble.

[betsytaylor]

Do you have a picture of how you tie her back leg? I am getting ready to start milking a first calf heifer and am very nervous about it! I hope to hear your girl has gotten much better since October!

[nina]

Oct 16, 2016 6:41:06 GMT -5 marseydoats said:

Just a suggestion, you might find it easier to milk into a stainless steel pail. It will be a lot easier on your hands. Just figure the first week or so, most of the milk will go to the chickens because it has dirt in it. We have a frying pan spatter screen that only covers most of the pail, and dh could direct the milk streams so they flowed thru there (not me!)
Thunderstorms still affect my cow's let down, and she's on her 4th lactation. When we had the derecho, and the barn roof peeled off like somebody had taken a can opener to it while we were milking, well she got upset and anxious for about a week after that. They don't like any change in their routine, especially loud ones.
Hang in there, it will get better! (I used to cry when I had to milk by myself)

What the hay?  You guys are determined milkers.  Thunderstorms, hail, derechos does anything stop you?  I batten down the hatches and dive under the covers during thunder storms.  We have a walnut tree over the tin roofed barn, when the wind picks up it's a staccato of loud bangs making me jumpy;  I keep thinking  a walnut is going to crack my head not to mention I've seen what tornadoes and lightning can do.   I guess I'm not going to get my brave farmer badge.   

[Meadow Creek Mama]

I'm sure she'll be fine eventually. We had to build a side rail on for Bella so she couldn't move away and we added a rope from the head gate that goes along her side, on her backside above her udder and ties to this new rail. We have to push her into it then tie it tight, but she doesn't kick at all with it. Wish it was easier, but at least we found something that works.
Training to be a milker really tests my patience, almost more than my kids do! At least with cows it's temporary, kids seems to last for years and years and years....LOL. God Bless them!

[trina b]

I don't have a picture of how I tied her foot back, I actually ended up selling Tulah in order to pay for hay for the rest of them for the winter. Not due to her attitude so much as it was either her or her mama, my first milk cow, and I just can't part with my Elsie girl... I put Tulah's calf on Elsie to nurse twice a day.
Basically I put the lead rope around her near leg just above her hoof & hooked it to itself, then had her move her foot back just far enough that she couldn't reach her udder & tied it to a post behind her with a slip knot. When I finished milking her, I unhooked the lead from her foot so it was already in place for the next milking session.
As to being brave milking in a thunderstorm, I have to say it started AFTER I was milking, lol. And, we rarely have extreme weather, so I wasn't worried about a tornado or anything. It was just loud!