low tunnel orientation

[simplynaturalfarm]

I have had the supplies to build myself a low tunnel (as in 7 feet tall by 12 feet wide by 60) fora while now and finally I'm getting it done. My question was, my head spins from everybody's thoughts on orientation . . . The tunnel will be inmy existing garden so whether or not it shades everything may be a consideration. We get strong winds constantly here and gusts of 50-75 mph are not unheard of. From what I have read it is better for a greenhouse to take the wind side on than blow through the ends (if it is going to be open ) Eliot Coleman says for winter growing you want east west, for summer north south. i am simply wanting to extend the season 1 month on each end from passive solar and I am not trying to grow throughout the winter - this is NOt a greenhouse, just a poly tunnel.
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You experienced people, for those living up north, waht is the best way to do this? I get shade on the very north side of my garden (it is only 40 feet from the house and my house shades the north 20-30 feet of the 90 foot long garden), so I don't want the greenhouse there. I can run it east west a bit further, but then i wonder will I shade the entire north end of my garden (not really what I would LIKE to do, but maybe not a concern??), or I can run it north south along the east edge of the garden - the western edge is too close to myd riveway for me to consider a greenhouse there.

Also, I had planned to have roll up sides I am going to have to build myself, so that is how it will be ventilated. That plus end walls that can come off. I thought maybe if I was to run it east west, I would not have to have a roll up on the north side (a lot more work and dollars even though I am making it myself and not buying the roll up part), and just keep both end walls and south wall open 4 feet. I can always go back and make a roll up on the north side, but if it is best to orient it north/south I would have to have both long walls roll up in order to get ventilation blowing through it. My pit greenhouse before ran east west and did just fine heat wise and ventilation wise, but it was 5 feet in the ground and the ventilation was via 5 feet up so nothing blew across all the plants constantly.

DECISIONS LOL.

[haecklers]

Wow. That's a lot of wind!

The workshop I went to recommended putting in stakes between the crosspieces that hold the roof up, then getting some good rope and zig-zagging it from one stake to the next across the top of the roof, back and forth to protect it from wind. She said you could still raise the poly easily and pull it back down with that arrangement. I'd worry the wind would raise the poly and chill the plants.

What do you think about putting in a windbreak? Either hedge or stone wall or something? Even in summer the garden won't dry out as fast if you can protect it from the wind.

[vickik]

Mine that run east/west hold up much better in the wind then the north/south oriented one. Like you we have very high winds certain times of year. Even when the ends are closed up they seem to handle it.

[Lannie]

We've toyed with that same idea in the past. IF we were going to do it, which we're not, because the wind will just shred whatever we put up, we talked about going east/west with it, so the sun will follow along the length of it. And we DO have a windbreak around our garden - a 20+ year old thick lilac hedge. But when the summer storms come in, it doesn't help except right up next to the hedge (which is where I finally started planting my tomatoes, so I could actually GET some! LOL!). But I had this whole thing all designed with roll-up sides and removable or screened ends with doors in them, too. The problem was, we just couldn't figure out how it would last in the wind.

If I were you, I'd run yours east/west, and then let me know how it does. I just can't see it working for us, but I'd be happy if you were the guinea pig.   I can't even use row covers, because if they're anchored down firmly enough not to blow away, they just end up with rips in them before the summer is over. I'm so tired of wasting money on stuff that just gets torn up by the wind. If we ever get out of here, it will be to escape the wind more than the cold. I could handle the cold just fine if there wasn't so much wind. (gripe, gripe...)

So keep us all posted if you do this, and if it works, I'll be needing to know precisely what you used and how you put it together, so I can do something similar. I'd really just like to keep all the BIRDS out of my garden. The starlings found us two years ago, and ate every single scrap of everything in my garden, even the tomato and pepper STEMS. I'm still trying to figure out what to do about them.

~Lannie

[simplynaturalfarm]

Lannie, I know exactly what you mean - where I come from in SK is not as barren nor windy as it is here and I had very little success with my poly house thus the reason we actually built fences to go around the tomatoes - I built it out of 2x2 wood that I sharpened the ends on so we could drive them into the ground. We built them in 8 foot sections and they were 3 feet tall and covered in plastic from hardware store. The fences had top and bottom rails, posts every 4 feet and then we attached the plastic with strips of wood that were nailed to the 2x2s. We never had to replace the plastic in all the years we used them and we just moved them to the new tomato patch every year. It got warm and the tomatoes were not beaten to death by the wind.

Something we did last year that worked REALLY well was to buy 20 white 50 gallon drums and just set them up around the tomato patch (I put them on their side around other things) The drums did cost us $8.00 each, but maybe you could find them for free? And if you fill them with water you hav ea wonderful solar heat trap that releases the heat at night - I'm going to do it again this year for a windbreak. They will last forever whereas the other things I try disintegrate in a year - we tried a row cover ONE year and it lasted less than a month!
OR maybe you can find a source of free 5 gallon pails and use them full of water? I know one fellow who plants tomatoes all the way around a 50 gallon drum that is full of water, and then he puts 5 gallon pails in a circle around the tomatoes and that keeps them warm and wind free.

I have also built walls out of straw bales, but the thing is I have to buy those now so I don't do that. But where we lived before our neighbor made them for free (crazy guy!) and I would just make a 2 high wall around it. Requires you to have very good mouser kitties or dogs because that straw attracts mice like you would not believe!

I also bought windbreak fence last year to fix one spot on our county road that drifts 5 feet deep every winter - a 50 foot strip cost $35 on sale. I put that up around a few things, but I do not feel it stops the wind so much as slows the snow down and catches snow .

I think I will run it east west - I am finding a lot of hoop house manufactureres saying the north latitudes should be east west, and south should be north south because a north/south one will stay a few degrees cooler. In a southern climate they do not get the long daylight hours we do, so they want maximum light and less heat thus the north south run. In our climate where we average 2-3 hours LONGER day hours, it is not so big of a deal.

Eliot Coleman says north south run give you better sun coverage on all the plants and won't shade things, but are for extending season a bit. I can understand the problems with an east west - everything tall will always have to planted on the north side. Rotating crops is going to be a bit harder as I'm doing it mainly for tomatoes and peppers

[simplynaturalfarm]

Here is a picture of our plastic walls Lannie

[Lannie]

Those don't blow over? Wow!

I'll run some of your other suggestions by Rich and see if there's any way to incorporate some of them. I'm always looking for ways to get more out of my garden.

~Lannie

[simplynaturalfarm]

No, they didn't come out, but our soil was not the most friable, so they held well into the ground. They were pounded in about 12 inches. Our soil here is so soft (and ground water is only 18 inches most of the time), that sometime T posts fall over, so thus the reason I decided 50 gallon drums full of water would do better Even on their sides they provide shelter

[throwback]

East/west with a low 7 foot tunnel also has the potential to really bake your plants. My neighbor had the same type of siting problem and she is pretty limited now in what she can grow during the growing season because she chose the east/west orientation. Great for winter harvesting but a nightmare during the summer. Her taller hoophouse with the same orientation and good ventilation at the roof works fine for all crops in the summer. But it didn't turn out like she expected

[simplynaturalfarm]

throwback, I was hoping you'd come on! Was this a northern climate also that your friend had this issue? We rarely get above 90F (for less than 1 month) always down to 50 ish at night , but I know in a greenhouse that is cooking temp without good ventilation. Our saving grace is constant winds - we average 17 MPH daily. so if you have ends up and roll up sides it should be okay.
HAVING said this - what orientation are your lovely greenhouses? I do not want to restrict the growth in my tunnels, but multiple greenhouse companies have told me that in my latitude I will want it east west - we have purchased a couple of things from Farmtek and the guy we work with told us this also. I also will have a harder time gardening if I have to run it east west, simply because I have to put it ahead of part of the garden or it will get shade, which means the northern end of my garden will be shaded BY the greenhouse which is complicated. . .

[throwback]

Heather, she's my neighbor, we have the same temps as you, rarely above 90 and around 50 at night most summer nights, no wind though. She's got roll up sides, but usually leaves the north side closed,still too hot in the low tunnel. We're between the 45 & 46 parallel, so you're probably north of that in ND.

Ours are north/south and to alleviate shading of the south wall for winter, I don't plant anything for holding over that will fall into that zone of shade during the winter. It's already getting hot enough in there that I have to move my flats of starts to the south end wall, it's just too hot for them on the north wall, and our hoophouse is 12' at the peak with a end wall vent at the peak.

I think for us, we need the light and n/s works the best for that, most folks recommending e/w are concerned with heat which I don't care about since we don't use them for winter, and we don't get much light here anyway during the winter so e/w and any heat retention practices wouldn't do me much good. Plus with the n/s I have a lot of rotation options, my girlfriend now is locked into always planting her tall plants on the north side since they will shade out anything short.

[simplynaturalfarm]

Absolutely makesense - I told Dh that if I run east west, I am STUCK with losing about 2 feet on the north side because anything I plant therill be shaded by the taller tomatoes I plant in the middle.

DO your tomatoes planted in the middle of your hoop house not shade everything on both sides - you would think they would shade one side in the morning and the other side in the afternoon.

I hope to have a portable hoop house next year - I did not have that style hoop bender, I did not have the extra funds to get more wood for skids and such and already had stuff for a permanent house although I'm stressing over every silly decision. LOL It was less stressful putting up my little homemade barn, moving my house and building other sheds than it has been figuring out where to put this greenhouse!

[simplynaturalfarm]

One other question while you are here - do you find it makes much difference to put down plastic mulch - I noticed in your pictures the red mulch, but I spent about 8 hours one day reading through all your website and my brain is now muddled x10 . But I did order several new seeds based on your website recommendations

[throwback]

Funny I just put some down today...tentatively planting a row of tomatoes trying to push tomato season a bit

I've used both green and red, & I can't tell the difference in the plants actually producing more or earlier, but I sure notice those rows were weed-free at the end of the season, and the rows with straw mulch had slugs living there dining on tomatoes So plastic keeps the weeds and slugs at bay, not so sure about the claims of early fruiting.

I answered your questions backwards (didn't see the first post). I have six rows basically, and I plant cool weather stuff on the sides because of the roll up sides, and tomatoes and peppers in rows 2,3,4, & 5 where it is warmer. I use the purlins for support for my tomato twines so I only plant indeterminates in rows 2 & 5. Determinates and peppers go in the middle rows. I haven't noticed that the small amount of shade that the plants cast being a problem and the tomatoes fruit evenly on both sides, so I think the n/s works the best for me. Our outside gardens are laid out the same as well, all rows n/s no problems with corn or tall beans shading anything.