Just thinking....

[KnockingbirdKelly]

Here's my advice:

Right now, while you're in-between cows, buy all the cow-care books you can afford and read them and re-read them and re-re-read them. Call around and find a vet with dairy experience who will be *your* vet. Find out if and when he'll come to your house to take care of your animal. Then when you do get your cow, save up to get a really good one with a good history and maybe a hardy breed, and then.... watch her. Watch her in the morning, watch her in the afternoon, watch her sleep, watch her udder, watch her eat. Study her as if you had to take a test on her! Get to know - instinctively - what's normal for her. When something seems a little off, go back to your books, post in the forum, take her temperature, look at her manure, see if she's eating. Maybe nothing's wrong, maybe something is, but in either case you'll learn more about her.

We had a simply awful first year with our cows. Really, really awful. And although I get what Laura is saying, our issues were truly freak occurrences, just like yours. We did spend money on vets (when they would or could come), and we had to do some things ourselves. We lost one newborn calf after a vet visit and me tube-feeding it, we saved one malpresented calf by turning it and then pulling it ourselves when the vet couldn't come, and then we had an experienced mama cow escape, deliver prematurely in the woods, and when we found her the calf was dead and she prolapsed her uterus and died shortly thereafter in the middle of the night, with my husband next to her. All of those were freak occurrences. It was one heck of a first year with cows! But we bought a ton more books after that.

Last year all six of our cows delivered completely without issue. This year we had one calf born covered in meconium, but he got up and nursed within a few hours and is fine now. We just lost one newborn but that was because the cow was accidentally bred too young and it was a surprisingly huge bull calf. So we've had some birthing issues, but no mastitis, milk fever, ketosis, etc in three years. After that first year, I was really depressed about the cows and questioned if we should keep on with it, but today I'm so glad we did. We love our cows, we know them, and we enjoy them. Please don't be too hard on yourself.

[KnockingbirdKelly]

Feb 3, 2013 14:34:28 GMT -5 marseydoats said:

And he actually did take the horse home and tie him to a tree because he didn't have a fence to keep him in. Nice guy, but totally clueless...

To me, this is also the fault of the seller. Granted, a buyer can lie and the seller can have no clue (or not truly care), but believe me, when we sell an animal, I'm going to ask a ton of questions. And I'm sending a copy of Joann's book and a printout with links to this forum and helpful websites, and anything else I can think of to help the cow to be well cared-for.

[jerseyrose]

[quote author=lcotterman board=cow thread=60798 post=491200 time=1359906852)

The other thing that just continually boggles my mind is that people jump into this with no training, education or experience.
[/quote]


This describes me 4+ years ago. We heard of a dealer close to us, from a friend at church who had a few Jerseys. We went and picked out a 10 yr old girl who we named " Rose". He hadn't had her too long and she had lost a front quarter to mastitis sometime in her life. I have experience with horses, sheep and goats, but truly had never really even been up close to a dairy cow. She has never had an off day in the 4+ years we have had her and has been a dream to handle for us "green as grass" cow owners. God was truly watching out for us when we went to get a family cow. The only complaint I have with her is that she never gave us a heifer!

I have a 3 year old Jersey that is due to calve in June with her 2nd calf. We got her from a small family dairy last Nov and she was dry.. I have no idea what the future holds for us with her. So far all is well, we just take each day as it comes and that is what you do when you have any animal. We do the best we can to feed them well, treat them well and be consistent in the routine but sometimes things just happen despite the best of everything we do..

I guess we have been lucky compared to many on here. I had never heard of ketosis, milk fever or any of those things. I did have my daughters 4-H leader help us out with minerals that she needed and she helped us when Rose calved the first time with us, with huge udder edema( every time since too). I called her immediately when no milk would come out and she got us going. I am forever thankful to those who take the time to help us inexperienced cow people when we need it.

[jerseyrose]

Feb 3, 2013 12:47:07 GMT -5 Laura C said:

Edit - You know the more I think about this the more I think it is ludicrous to expect that people who know nothing about large animals and nothing about dairy cows can just merrily be on their way with a family cow. In the horse world, for example, beginners take lessons to learn to ride and board their horse somewhere. They don't just buy a horse, take it home, tie it to a tree and try to figure out how the saddle works. That is nuts! Why are dairy cows any different?

Laura this is too funny! Once again I do exactly as I shouldn't!!

As a 13 year old I did just this! Bought my first horse( a weanling) and brought him home to our 1 acre and we grew up learning together! I had no injuries and he wasn't sick a day in his life( despite my inexperience). I had him 21 wonderful years . Looking back I really don't recommend it for everybody and as a mom now I certainly wouldn't want my daughter doing it. But, sometimes things just work out alright if we are diligent in the care of the animals we love.

[davisdj]

We have been very lucky indeed, I suppose. We bought our girl as a first calf heifer, about five months post calving, and rebred, from the Jersey dairy up the road from us. In doing so, we also made friends with the farm's manager. My husband asked him to recommend a large animal vet, and he replied, "Don't call a vet. Call me."

That was two years and two calves ago. In those two years, he's been in and out of our barn, doctored our animals, from the cow to numerous calves and taught us stuff with every visit. I think he continues to do so because we are appreciative, insist on paying him, and do exactly what he says. If I have the slightest question or concern, I call him. I think he also just loves cows and dairies and milking, and knows that we care immensely for our girl, and likes that. He's also a very nice guy.

As a result, every problem we've ever had has been caught early.

The only really serious incident was with her second calving (our first), she developed ketosis. I knew immediately what it was because of this forum. I called our dairy guy, gave her molasses water about every two hours and he came out and gave her some vitamin shots and we got some probiotics and adjusted her feed. In addition, we pulled the calf just to reduce the stress on her. She recovered nicely in a matter of a few days.

I think that successful outcome was due in part to sheer luck, and in part to a certain vigilance on our part. From comments on this forum, and from stuff our friend has told us again and again, we have learned to simply spend about ten minutes or so after every milking and just watch our animals. It makes us familiar with "normal." As a result, "not normal" just blares at us. It's now a habit. We're not anxious or frightened, or worried. It's just a habit. Stand there quietly and watch. Absorb "normal."

I've also learned to trust my gut instincts. If I think something's off, I call my friend. Period. I raise holy cain until somebody does something. :-) Even if I'm being a little bit overdramatic, I want to catch it early.

And we know anything can happen, and really bad stuff sometimes does happen for no reason at all to the best folks, this forum is skewed to the really bad. There is no way around that, and sometimes it helps me to just take a little break from reading so many stories of disaster if I see it's getting to me.

[careyg]

I must agree w/ previous posts by knockingbird farm and jerseyrose. IMHO what a disservice we do to ourselves when we avoid things in our lives out of fear of failure. I'm sure that we all have done this in our lives at one time or another. The joy that I (and most others on this board it seems) get from the time spent with my animals, be it chickens, pigs, sheep, or cows, completely overshadows any heartbreak that can and has happened on our farm. Whether we see ourselves as the failing component in these hard situations or not still makes it difficult to dive back in to these relationships that can break our hearts.

All of this said........Take the opportunity while you are cow-less and read, read, read. There is a lot of what goes on that has to be learned by experience but if you have read up on things then at least you understand the possibilities. No one can know everything but there is a ton of support here as well. I am new to dairy ownership as well and my cows are teaching me lots on top of what I learn from KFC.

I just want to encourage you that every experience isn't like the ones that you've already had. You've gotten a lot of ugly stuff out of the way. You lived through the hard times and I bet you learned a bunch with both experiences. You will be able to be a better "cow-mamma" for it.

[Laura C]

Julie, with your cows you had lots of experience with other large animals and you had friends with Jersey cows. You could probably call them and ask a question and you had a vet for your other critters. I am not trying to say anyone is "wrong" or shouldn't do any particular thing. I am a huge dreamer and dive into stuff all the time. I love living that way.

This whole thread started because stamper said the disaster posts on this forum made her wonder if all cows had disasters. I think it is easy to get scared spitless by all the disaster posts. I know they scare me. All I am saying is when you have people that have never cared for anything larger than a household pet and they get a commercial dairy cow...well, disasters are going to happen.

Beef cows are 1000% easier than dairy cows. We had gazillions of beef cows. We know cows. But, dairy cows (Jerseys) are a whole other ball game. Everything from the pre-calving signs to feeding to metabolic problems to milking is so much higher maintenance.

[briarrose]

For what it's worth, I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here.

I have raised dairy cattle all my life and love my cows dearly. Most of my girls have come to me as young heifers from a friends dairy and are either partially crippled or blind. My 2 oldest at the moment are Jerseys and almost 14 years old. They calve every year with no problems at all and do just fine. The hand full of adult in milk cows that I have rescued for one reason or another have ended up having problems of some sort, but I muddle through and eventually I end up losing them to multiple problems. Not because I am inexperienced or not caring, but in my area the dairys worry more about production than the overall health of the cow. They figure that when one dies there are 10 more heifers in line to take their place. Sad but true.

I think a lot of the problems stem from people desperate to have a cow in milk rather than purchasing a nice heifer and starting them themselves. People have a tendency to buy with their hearts and not their heads sometimes and that's when they can have some really serious problems. I firmly believe that how a heifer is raised makes a big difference as to her health as an adult. Keep in mind that I am "old school" and sometimes leave my vet scratching his head, but he can't argue with my results.

I also stay away from the sale barn animals for the same reasons already mentioned. I have very few health issues and like to keep it that way. In case I forgot to mention, I have 10 cows, 1 breeding bull and raise anywhere from 40 to 50 calves every year.

One thing I find important for people buying an animal is that they can get full disclosure about the animal from the previous owner. I have people come to my home and literally spend hours going through the cows, asking questions and even learning to milk. I feel that it is an important part of being a responsible cow owner and seller. I also make myself available to people to call at any time if they have a problem regardless if it is one purchased from me or someone else. I'm always there to help. That is just me.

You're experience was heart wrenching as with many others on here and I can feel the pain and desperation in the postings. My heart goes out to every one who posts with a sick cow. I have also been there and it is not pleasant. You can only do as much as possible and hope for the best. I hope when the time is right for you that you find your perfect cow.

Kristy

[careyg]

I realize I didn't answer your questions at all in my earlier post......We have a Jersey and a MS cow. Have had no drama with either of them. They are sweet and healthy. No calving problems, no metabolic issues. But like you said, we don't post when things are going smoothly!

[elnini]

Our vet says the best tool he has to work with isn't his training, or the instruments, or the meds, it's an owner who can tell when something is off and describe what normal is and why the off isn't.

[lew92]

Feb 3, 2013 15:33:26 GMT -5 elnini said:

Our vet says the best tool he has to work with isn't his training, or the instruments, or the meds, it's an owner who can tell when something is off and describe what normal is and why the off isn't.

Ain't that the truth! We can do all the reading in the world, talk to dairymen, even work with them to get some experience, but if we don't take the time to get to know our own animals, we're less likely to catch something in the early stages.

Trust your gut - if something feels off, ask here about it if you think you have the time. If not, call out a vet. Better to have a vet bill for something small than to lose a cow.

My vet trusted me with the abscess and gave the me option of allowing it to burst on its own or to have him excise it. As it had come up so quickly, I had him cut it, to discover the drywall screw. I shudder to think if we'd left it there and it had worked it's way into her chest.

So many good examples here of why cows are good for us!

[stamper]

Wow! 3 pages of replies! I have just begun to read your replies... thank you

[Debbie Lincoln]

Here's a happy cow story. I have plenty of my own, but this is my neighbor's. He had a herd of 16 black Brangus cows and one old big-eared red one. Due to drought, he sold them all 10 years ago - all but the red one. The buyer wanted uniformity and this cow looked old due to a saggy udder. She was only 6 and was nursing her 4th calf, pregnant with her 5th. She has since had 9 more calves - 6 of them heifers (neighbor had to buy a bull for her). Her has kept the heifers and bought a new bull every two years. All the heifers are black. THe old red momma cow is pregnant again - still with a saggy, baggy udder and weaning fat and sassy calves. No calving problems. No dead or sick animals. Al her female off spring look just like her - only black and with good udders (go figure). I see them every day and they bring as much joy to me as my own 2 cows. We all love that old red cow and the man who kept her. SHe'll be there until she dies.
Added: I believe in the vigor of cross bred cattle. Purebreds have their place, but to avoid some of their "issues" I think a cross bred (AngusXJersey for instance) is a good choice for a first time cow owner.

[jerseycowgirl]

Debbie
I love that happy cow story!

Pam

[Debbie Lincoln]

Me, too. ;-)
And the funny thing is...my neighbor thought he was going OUT of the cattle business - and now he has a herd of 6 lovely black (and one red) cows again! Most with calves. I keep threatening to steal one of the heifers and turn her into a milk cow - they are all delightful....

[kimmie]

Hi Stamper! I'm glad you checked in.

Just so you know - I have anxiety every day about the health of my herd, and extra when they are due to calve!

I was thinking that maybe when you are ready to jump back in a cross may be better suited for you rather than a full on milker for your second go? I personally would love to have a LowlineXJersey cross as a milker. Knock on wood but I've never had mastitis, ketosis, or milk fever issues with my girls. Someone said that beefers are 1000% easier to raise and it is true. They are much lower maintenance than milkers. That is why I'd like to have a cross for a milker. I may be wrong but my thinking is the beefer would instill some hardiness into the milker.

Beyond that - beefers are not without issues & mishaps.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I'm glad you checked in and wish you the best.

[DanMa]

Well I have raised my eyebrows by a few things I have read on here in the past year but I give those people credit for knowing when to ask the advice of the "experts". Some people here have access to vets whose seemingly only solution is to euthanize the cow and with the help of others on this board have turned things around.

Laura, living 30 miles from Boston there is no one around here to ask for advice and all my cow-keeping relatives died decades ago. The only 2 dairies close by have either avoided my questions or given me mis-information so it's been YEARS since I have spoken to them. Oh yes, when I first got my cows they said the usual "anything you need let us know, we'll be glad to help". "We have a large supply of meds if you need some". Well, when I did need something in a hurry and asked if I could borrow it and would replace it with the meds which I had ordered and which were on their way here for half the country away, the answer was NO. So I and my cows had to wait and suffer. It also seems to be a CIA secret with them who trims hooves. Even when I say I am willing to pay EXTRA for a small amount of animals, they refused to give me the name of their hoof trimmer. If it wasn't for my AI guy [who I met a good few years after I started keeping cows], I still wouldn't know the name of a hoof trimmer. He is one dairyman that I would recommend someone talk to.

My mini-jersies are grass fed not because I am too cheap to give them grain but because that's the way nature designed them to be before humans interfered with their never-ending greed for ever more production. These cows do get a bit of grain for condition and nutrition [also bribes ;D].

My ethnic traditions would have me chopping up root vegetables and feeding steamed, mashed potatoes as well, but I haven't done that yet. And I trust those traditions and the knowledge gained through the centuries by simple peasants over and above ALMOST anything out of a modern vet [or human medical] school.

Personally, I object to many of the "modern" methods used in dairies so I would not recommend anyone learn from a dairy person UNLESS they intended to go into the commercial dairy business themselves or raise a commercial dairy breed cow as a family milk cow. Yes, I would call [if I could get one to come out here] a vet if I needed to and have done so BUT I do not agree with much of the modern day vet training just like I do not agree with much of modern American MD training. It is my--perhaps fallible--opinion that much of what passes for "fact" in the USA is heavily influenced by corporate lobbying, big business/politics.

There is one vet here, wife of a dairyman, who (1) would not come here because I do not have a stanchion and (2) does not believe I have any business owning a Jersey bull. Well I found someone else who doesn't care about the stanchion or bull. I do not need her approval/permission to keep a bull and if he injures me that is entirely my own affair and none of her damn business.

I much prefer to try my luck on here first before anything else. [That and maybe a phone call or 2 to my ancestral home town in Europe but I like it better here .]

Stamper when you do all the reading that has been recommended here, you will probably find some conflicting information. Sometimes that info will apply better in some situations rather than others. Other times, it will be good to know to help you "go with your gut" and make your own decisions.

[milkmaid]

Completely agree with Laura. She hasn't said anything rude or nasty, she's just stated facts. It's completely accurate to say that there are a lot of inexperienced folks who buy a "family cow" and that it's absurd to purchase an animal with no facilities or knowledge of how to care for it.

I take a break from here every now and again because it's incredibly frustrating to read some of the posts. Can't catch the cow, can't milk the cow, cow has a problem it's either MF or ketosis (never mind that there's 50 million other things that could be wrong), misinformation or poor information, posts that don't give a thorough history (yes, there's about a zillion reasons for sudden death), and the same question asked and answered four times in two pages. I realize there are quite a few people who have experience, knowledge, and are willing to share it on here - I'm glad. For the rest of you without experience or knowledge - find a way to get the experience and/or do some serious reading. Take Laura's advice - it's good.

To the OP: there's a much lower incidence of problems with cattle than you'd think based off the posts in the 911 section. That said, nutrition and proper management will take care of most of the problems. Keeping a cow in a 40'x40' dirty pen with soiled straw bedding - don't be surprised if a cow in that setup gets mastitis. Cow has a BCS of 1.5? don't be surprised if that one gets a uterine infection when she calves. Cow has a BCS of 5/5 and hasn't been milked or calved in 2 years? that's a prime candidate for ketosis, fatty liver, and a DA. Cow doesn't have free choice hay/pasture? that's a huge risk factor for a displaced abomasum. Properly taking care of the cow avoids most of the problems.

[CFFarm]

Stamper! I am so happy you are back on. I hope you will stick around and explore other areas on the board more often.
I did not read any other replies to your thread, yet. But wanted to share my own feelings with you. So if I am repeating anything already said, it is unintentional.
Here is a bit of my story. I have had my cow for almost a year now. She is my first and I had absolutely no experience. She is a 4 yr. old Jersey. We brought her home February 2012. I anxiously waited through her pregnancy. Which seemed so so long. I had the vet out to make sure she was bred and healthy. She calved in August. The birth was uneventful and very fast. She knew exactly what to do and her calf came out strong and healthy. He is growing like a weed and she is a milking dream. We have had our ups and downs....and I have felt worry and fear and alot of uncertainty. I can't say nothing will ever happen, it may. And if it does I have to find a way to keep on keeping on.

Here is a cute story for you, I have never told anyone this because they would laugh. But I think you would appreciate it.

I went on vacation last July and I was gone for 4 days. I was pretty worried about my cow, it was the first time I had been away from her. When I got home, I had just stepped out of the vehicle and said hello to my husband. My cow must have heard my voice and came running up to the gate and started mooing at me and did not stop until I went out and gave her some lovins', lol. That is why I do this, for those special times and memories. You can't get them anywhere else. Having a family cow has been such a blessing to me. And I love her dearly.
My heart goes out to you, I remember how much pain it caused you to loose your girls.
It hurts when we loose an animal. That is the plain truth and it is okay. Courage is continuing to do what is hard in spite of our fear.It takes courage to have animals because of the possibility of a loss. We continue on because we are better for the time we have with them. We can't predict what may or may not happen. Nor always have reasons why things happen the way they do. I personally don't want to live life where I don't let myself experience the joys, because sorrow is in my way. I would miss out on so much.

Wether you get another cow or not is something only you can decide. It may help, who knows? And all of us will be right here for you no matter what. I think you will know when/if you are ready. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you choose. karen

[pipergrey93]

Milkmaid, of course it could be "50 million other things", however, the most common are MF, Ketosis, bloat, or hardware. Of course we would start with those. And of course there is much repetition as people new to cows come onto KFC.

To learn the "50 million other things" one would have to be not only a vet, but a vet who specializes in dairy to 'deserve' to own a diary cow.

The tone of both your and Laura's posts are quite arrogant (and some believe wrong) and the only purpose I can see is to sit in harsh judgement of anyone who doesn't have the level of knowledge and skill you two believe you have.

Better someone with no knowledge and willing to learn from others than those with just enough knowledge to be dangerous (I put many vets in this category).

I've been on KFC for several years now and the cow owners on here who are not responsible are NOT the norm, and from the ten's of thousand's of posts I've read, quiet rare.

Maybe you two should go back and read your posts with an eye out for tones of elitist arrogance and remember the main purpose of KFC....to teach, so that we can all love and enjoy a family cow. Sandy