Just thinking....

[stamper]

I haven't been around too much, but I've been popping in now and again to read posts. I sill feel pretty traumatized by my experiences last year, losing my cow (that I had just bought) to milk fever (that we thought we were prepared for) and then 2 months later losing her very, VERY beloved calf to C. perfengines (which I also thought I was somewhat prepared for).

I'm not ready for a new cow. I don't have land and I'm trying to go to school, but I am ready to start imagining what it will be like.

When I have been coming over here to read posts, I usually read things in the 911 section, which probably does not help my anxiety about everything, but I just feel compelled to learn about as many things that can go wrong as possible. Obviously (I hope it's obvious) I know that being prepared is no guarantee of anything, but it's the best I can do, and really, it's the only thing I can do. I can't go into it again just believing that "everything will be fine" because I KNOW that didn't happen last time.

So I guess I do kind of have a question....

Are there any cows (of the dairy variety) that exist their entire lives (full, natural lives) with no major trauma. Minor trauma is expected and acceptable. No "going down" and requiring 24-7 care for weeks on end. No birthing catastrophes if someone had to miss the birth to go to work for a couple of hours. No sudden illness requiring acute and immediate emergency veterinary care. Or is this what you always sign up for with a dairy cow? I know it happens, but does it ALWAYS happen?

I am SO sick of hearing people tell me "where there's livestock... .... ... dead-stock." I'm not an idiot. I know things die, obviously. I know that there are no guarantees. I also know that these animals have been bred to require human intervention. But I just don't think it can always be as stressful as I'm imagining. It's easy to come here to post about problems, so I'm hoping that my perception is skewed because less people come to post when things are going great, after all, that could be risky

The ONE other family cow owner that I know, has to turn her milker into burger because she had a DA leading to unresolved ketosis after calving and has been dealing with a jaw infection for over a year. The cow is 4 (maybe 5 years old...) which I would not call "old" by any means. So this is also reinforcing my belief that dairy cow ownership never goes well.

Please share your happy, hearty cow experiences with me But you don't have to lie

[AnnB (NE)]

It is very true that a forum such as this shows a skewed view of the health of dairy cows. Folks post when they need help, they don't post to say "400 days with no problems, everything's hunky-dory".
We have (I think) over 5000 members now, it's only natural that the vast majority of posts have to do with problems.

I remember all the heartache you went through and am very glad to see that you haven't given up completely on the idea of having a family cow.


Okay - I've been doing this for 13-14 years now, have owned several cows, and have never lost a cow or had a case of Milk Fever (yes, I'm touching wood!! LOL). There have been occasional bouts with Ketosis. I'd have to look it up but it seems that there have been about 30 calvings over those years, with only 3 lost calves - 1 was C-section on a 35" heifer almost 4 years ago - heifer was fine and has calved twice since then. One was in '02, a calf with head thrown back, vet had to pull, calf died cow was fine. Then we had a newborn calf chased down and killed by another cow. Our other calving incident was a Holstein/Jersey heifer I bought that was supposed to be bred to a Jersey, but instead was bred Holstein - DH and I had to pull a 103 lb heifer calf out of her. Both were fine - that calf was sold back to the seller of the dam and went on to be Nebraska's Grand Champion Holstein heifer/cow for several years in a row.

I started off with the old cow that Janene recently put down, old Dolly. Dolly was 4-1/2 when I bought her, 17 when Janene had to put her down. High-production Jersey (10 gallons a day when in her prime), came from an Amish dairy, and she never had Milk Fever, only had Ketosis once that I remember, and never a calving problem - even when she was AI'd to a Shorthorn.

I bought a skinny 3 y/o Mid-sized Mini Jersey in '03 and sent her to the salebarn at 10 years when she quit breeding. I currently have that cow's daughter (6 y/o), 2 granddaughters (7 & 4), her greatgrandson (3), and great-greatgrandson (1). I also have a granddaughter (3) of that cow's half-brother.
I LOVE that family - we've never had Milk Fever, only occasional Ketosis, and rarely a mastitis issue (touching wood again!).

I buy do buy salebarn calves and calves from a local dairy - most of our issues have been with these calves. At one point I was raising them 10 at a time, 2 sets a year. I went years without any loss of purchased calves except for one that didn't get colostrum and one that aspirated (bit the tip off his nipple and filled his lungs with milk).
Then about 3 years ago our luck changed - I bought 2 cheap salebarn bulls that were scouring, 1 died, but he contaminated the barn and all of the next set died. I no longer seek out the weak/cheap calves! I used to go for the $5-$10 calves - so selling at $400 at 7 months to the "gomer guy" gave a nice tidy profit - I doubled my money on them when I had to feed Milk Replacer, and easily tripled it when the cows were fresh. But salebarns bring risks, such as the scouring calves that were contagious - they had BVD, a real nasty one for newborns.

I think the scariest situation was coming home to find a heavily pregnant cow upside down in the feed bunk bloating! Luckily we had friends with us and between 4 of us, we got her rolled out of the bunk. She appeared to be just fine, obviously sore for a few days, but she's the one who's calf died after being pulled - head thrown back. I still thiink that malpositioning was due to her being knocked into the feed bunk and then being rolled out of it.

All in all, there have been hundreds and hundreds (thousands) of days when everything went just fine, and few that they didn't.

Personally, I think there are 2 major factors to being successful with a family cow:

#1 - don't buy someone else's problem! Buy from reputable folks who seem to enjoy/love their cows - they're less likely to pass along a problem in a private sale. Salebarns and dealers are always "BUYER BEWARE".

#2 - OBSERVATION! Watch and KNOW your cow. Learn her normal behavior and pay close attention when she seems "off". Cows are prey animals and as such they hide illness/pain. It's ingrained into prey animals that Nature's Law says that the day you show that you're sick is the day you die. In a lot of cases by the time the cow shows obvious signs of being sick, she's really sick.


I hope some of this has helped and not made you more nervous of getting another cow!
Because of what you've been through, you'll be a GREAT cow mama when you decide to jump back in.

Ann B

Sent from my Ally using ProBoards

[lew92]

AnnB says it very well and I like those two major factors to consider.

I'm touching wood, too...My cow is 3/4 Jersey, 1/4 Holstein. She's had a couple of cases of mastitis, one that had to be treated with antibiotics, but otherwise she's never been truly sick. Oh, one case of winter dysentery that was rather messy and brought her production down, but nothing to cause any major distress. She bloated once, but that was "operator error" - we had some very fresh round bales delivered and she stood at the bale eating all day long. I was working away from home that day or I probably would have noticed and intervened. By evening chores, she looked like a balloon about to pop and we called the vet in. She lost some weight and production from that one and it took another four months to get her bred, but she came back hale and hearty.

Last summer, she had a drywall screw in her chest behind her right armpit area. It caused an abscess that was three inches wide, six inches long, and raised up by at least an inch and a half. The vet said how cows wall off infection very well, so that they rarely get systemic infection, which really protects them. She had just been bred three weeks before that and came back into heat a couple of months after, so I'm not sure if the trauma had anything to do with it or not.

And just this week she knocked the outer layer of her horn off, which involved a lot of bleeding and having to cauterize the horn with a blow torch, but her production stayed up and she came out of the stanchion after her treatment and proceeded to head butt the new girl right off the bat. She's still top cow, even though the other cow outweighs her by about 500 lbs.

So that's the traumas and illnesses we've been through in six and a half years. She's ten months into her fourth lactation now and has two foster calves on her. She helped start over 30 calves for us in the past ten months, at least 8 of them fully weaned off of her. She's a cow, so prefers routine, but I've got to say that she will do just about anything I ask of her, given the time to process the idea. She's been milked in two different barns, started out in a homemade stall where we clipped a chain to her collar when she went in to eat. Now she's milked in a "portable" head catch that we moved from our old house to the new.

All of her babies have been incredibly healthy, two heifers and two bulls. The bulls were steered and made excellent beef. Her first heifer is owned by WindyPines, a member here, and has turned into a very nice cow for her. Her other heifer is now ten months old and is a BIG girl, being half Angus, but the sire was chosen for his docility rating and the milkiness of his daughters, so I'm sure she'll make a very nice milk cow, too.

Buttercup is sweet and kind - I was ill with pneumonia, bronchitis and sinus infection from September until mid January when I had sinus surgery that seems to have cleared me up. Anyway, there were stretches of 5 or more days when I didn't go out to the barn, leaving the guys to take care of chores for me. When I felt up to it, I would go out to the gate to talk to my girl and she would come over to me, sniff me and lick me. I knew she was missing me because she rarely ever licks me.

Yes, if you have livestock, you will suffer losses, but the forum is scewed to the trauma and misfortunes because we need help when the situation is bad or desperate.

One thing I do have to note: I see members with more issues and problems with purebred cows than with the crossbred ones. I know there is a certain aura to owning a registered animal, but in reality, they are so finely bred that they have had some of the stamina and heartiness bred out of them. Such cattle have been bred for high production, which isn't necessarily a good thing for a home dairy animal, particularly if they are being handmilked. from my own experience, I know I don't get all the milk when I handmilk, I just don't have the strength or stamina to get it all out. Which is a good part of the reason that I sharemilked with a calf when handmilking. I now have a machine - another adjustment I asked of her that she gracefully accepted - so I'm more confident of getting all the milk. Her production stays up and mastitis isn't the worry that it once was.

So I've rambled for a long time to rave about my cow. It does seem that some people have an inordinate amount of tragedy with their girls, but I really don't think it is the norm. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many of us here that can help out when there is trouble.

[elnini]

There are probably hundreds of thousands of cows in dairies that don't get the love and attention family cows get, and while the majority of those burn out faster than family cows, they also don't drop dead too often.

The dairy that bred the ayreshire bull I have in the semen tank has cows on the line well into their teens. I think it's definitely skewed here by posting, as we do, looking for answers. I think there may also be a tendency for family cow people to buy with their heart, buy culls and keep when commercial people would cull. All of which adds just a little to the odds of a problem.

[pipergrey93]

Many of us understand your trauma b/c we've been there. What AnnB said about getting to know your cow and being proactive if they seem off is so true! Also, there are cows that give wonderful milk, but are not the very high producers. They might be better for someone who is less familiar with dairy cows. There is a very sharp learning curve.

After the trauma of losing a girl to ketosis and almost losing one to twins, I have a jersey/guernsey cross that I bought from a KFC member (Liz). I have never had a problem with her (also touching wood and praying). She calved the first time 2 weeks early with a bull calf. She never even had any edema. She didn't even show any classic signs that she was about to calve. She just went from no signs to a calf on the ground in 1.5 hours. My only complaint with her is that I like to be there when they calve and it's not possible when they just sneak them out on you like that.

I sold the jersey that had the twins to a KFC member. Her udder was blown but otherwise she was the perfect cow. The lady adores her and knew her full history when she bought her, including the severe edema from the twins.

I guess what I'm saying is the same as AnnB, if you get another cow, make sure the person is reputable. KFC is a great place to start. I wanted my buyer to know Eunice's history b/c I wanted my girl to have a wonderful forever home.

Um, I still pay close attention to the 911 section to help others and to learn, and yes, it does bring it all back sometimes.

[corrae]

Stamper--

I'm going to chime in on this one, even though I'm pretty "fresh" (excuse the pun) to dairy cow ownership too... I hear ya, sistah--about reading all these posts with serious, serious, awful problems. And my heart goes out to you in your loss of your precious cow. I've only owned my cow since last March--I bought her 10 days fresh--and she's been an absolute love and delight for me. Very very easy and amenable to just about anything I ask of her--and in my ignorance, she has definitely had to put up with A LOT!! She is due to calve March 8th, and I've been having nightmares about losing her to milk fever--mostly because of reading all these posts about MF. I finally called the woman I purchased my cow from and she set my fears to rest. Not that it can't happen, but I'm hoping to be prepared. I'm seconding what everyone else is saying: you know you have to know your cow and be vigilant. I'm pretty on the ball when it comes to Skye's care, and I'm blessed that she herself is a very neat and tidy cow. She's not one to laze around in her manure--she tends to keep her bed and her poop very separate.... Now I'm rambling too. I think you should try again. Buy from someone who is reputable, honest, and who will sell you a cow that is perfect for you. Have a relationship with your vet. Yes, things can and do go wrong. But the joy of a milk cow transcends the pitfalls. I don't know where you are located, but I'm happy to give you the name of the woman I purchased Skye (and her little sister Topaz!) from. Best of luck to you. You'll do just fine next time.

[farmerchris]

I sure hope I can keep this short.
When I was a kid at home, I raised bottle calves, and had great luck. (my deffinition of luck is where Preparation Meets Opportunity) I don't remember losing any, but I had a couple crazy ones.
About 13 years ago, I bought 2 Jerseys from a local-old-fart-rancher-type-vet. One was 5 years old one was 3, both had been exposed to a black Angus bull. They were mother and daughter, I named them Ellie (younger one) and Nellie. We found Nellie upside down in a ditch one time, and I don't remember if she ever had mastitis or not, probably did a time or two. I know Ellie had Milk Fever a time or 2. I mainly raised calves on both of them, but Elllie and I learned to milk together. My sister woud come milk with me, so we got together time that will remain priceless for life. Lots of laughs that sister was always scared of Ellie. I had babies at every month of the year imagineable, and I always tried to keep a cow record/journal. I bought from dairies, individuals, some neighbors gave me calves for free because they knew I would put the work in to saving a life that they otherwise didn't want to mess with. So I can smile at all the successes that we had, knowing someone else would have let die.
I say 'we' because I have 4 boys that I homeschool. They have been raised on the farm, knowing the extremes of life and death, and sometimes the human has a hand in determaning which way it goes. I tried to be all grass fed for years, and my cows suffered because of it. I now feed a small amount of 'feed-stuffs' and they are fat and beautiful. My kids got that lesson too.
Anyyway, Nellie and Ellie raised 13 calves for me one year, and I will forever be grateful, I made a little bit of pocket money. Nellie got old and tired, and went down in the pond, we pulled her out, had the vet out, stayed with her all night with a kerocine heater on her (texas weather--so it was not bad cold), thought everything was fine, left her at about 6 am, she got up and went back in the pond and died. Dang it.
I had her for 13 years, then a few years later at the 13 year mark, we woke up one day to find Ellie in the pasture dead. Here is another good part. Ellie had a 6 month old heifer that looks exactly like her, now she will be here for a long time. Her name is Emmie. (see a theme here?)
I have bought and sold MANY jerseys in the last 13 years. I have a 2 different herds of British White beefers, but the last 2 severe Texas droughts caused me to make a choice.....Too many mouths to feed, so do we sell Jersey or beef..............I still have a pasture of Jerseys. (and one fat BW-oh, and a BW bull) I have let most of them raise calves for me. I don't remember getting any from auctions, I buy from the dairies. OH! Which riminds me, I have built a relationship with one dairyman in all those years to where he LOANS me a bull when I need it. I just go pick him up and bring him back a month to 45 days later, no cost. That feels good.
We have had so many 'life-lessons' by keeping cows. My kids learn to drive by having to deliver hay in the winter. They learn responsibility by knowing YOU HAVE TO MILK. We have had to pull a couple calves, and even had dead twins, but when you know that you had a part in that life arriving an looking at that baby, especially the ones that stick around, and become the next milk cow or pet or even food-- it is a warm feeling to know the part that you played. Lots of times cows would get out, beef too, and I could call Ellie's name, and she would taddle on where everyone was. I would go get her halter and lead her and a whole string of cattle back down the road to home, she was boss cow in her younger years. That makes for some good smiles. I smile at the thought of my kids learning to be aware of their surroundings, because some of the cows will take your head off if you let down your awareness.
Just this last summer we had a 'near' tragedy, turned out great. my 10,13,and 15 year old sons had to help me get Molly (jersey) out of the bottom of a gully/raviene......I was prepared to shoot her if we hurt her beyond repair, and we were all crying at the thought of puting her thru what she was experiencing, but when she arrived at the top of the hill we cried tears of joy, then we had to help her get up for a week with a trackhoe, and a sling, but now everytime I look at her I smile, knowing that we helped save a life, and she didn't lose the calf that she was carrying.
Currently we have 1 beef, 1 jersey/beefcross, 1 holsteine/jersey, and 5 jerseys-then the young beef bull. Some of them will pop in March or April, then some in the fall. So chores are very easy at the moment, but every day that I go to feed, or check on them, or just go sit in the pasture, I get to smile. It is very rewarding to go lay my hand on each 'girl' while they are eating, some even ask for petting. Some days when we are milking, we have uneventful days, we just take our little buckets ( we is me, my 13 year old and 10 year old sons) and walk to the pasture, feed her a little bit, squeeze some boobs, thank her, pet her, turn her loose, come to the house and strain the milk................ and it feels really good. And lots of times we get to do it that way for day after day after day. and for that I am thankful for.
Same for the pigs that I used to raise: lots of uneventful times, a little heart ache, and lots of laughs and smiles. I'll just share one: 4 homeschool kids sitting at the table working diligently, quietly, then Momma (me) yells, "PIGS ARE OUT!!" All kids franticly grab shoes and sometimes more clothes are needed, and rush outside to find fencing pliers, new wire, a bucket of feed, and start calling 400 pound pigs to them. I smile and feel so pleased to know that each one knew what needed done and jumped in to do it. Then we would try to re-focus on school- HA, we were too busy laughing and reliving the chase, telling eachother how close we came to being eaten, or how funny a huge pig looks when it is running that fast.
Yes, there are times when farm animals make us cry, and make us scared, but the potential for a full happy life with animals is so very real and worth those down times.

farmerchris

[darcyrose]

I have so enjoyed reading this thread, and am so glad it was started. It is encouraging and eyeopening.
Farmerchris - You said it all, the memories of our animals and their antics, past and present are what make our lives worth waking up to each day Thank you to all who have shared their experiences so far

[Dianne Ader]

Oh, Stamper...get a cow again...find one from someone you can trust...like others have said make sure the cow has not had trouble before, you will do just fine!

I got my first Jersey cow four years ago. Her first calf was a heifer. No problems at all. Because of us having trouble finding an AI person, she did not get bred. We drove to California & bought a mini bull calf. A year later he broke his hip...we don't know why or how....anyway the Jersey still did not get bred. I continued to milk her & she gave 4 gallons at the peak of her lactation & through the next near 3 years gave me on average 1 1/2 to 2 gallons a day once a day milking. Her heifer was bred & had a bull calf no troubles. I believe that the daughter is bred back....but I am not sure about the Jersey. We will have to do bio tracking...which I am delaying...then have a vet out to see what can be done if she is not bred.

This is the life I could NOT live with out & it sounds to me you are like the rest of us....you are meant to have a cow....when the time is right get one!

Dianne

[Janene]

I remember your heartaches....I desperately wanted things to be all fine--especially with your calf after all you'd been through.
I'm excited that you "checked in" and let us know how things are going with you!

I believe, when you know the time is right; seek out that special cow you are looking for. I didn't think I could find a cow like Dolly (other than AnnB's Sunny D--she's a sweetie)...but I did.
And of course I got Daisy (new cow) from a KFC'er who is there to "hold my hand" if there is any issues. (Just like AnnB did for me if I had questions/issues with Dolly).

It helps ME to know if something is off, or normal for that cow if I have a question or concerns. It also helps since many of us are so "like minded" about our cows and lifestyles, that we totally understand each other--no "poo-pooing" something nor rolled eyes when a question is asked.

Horrible as it is, every tragedy/issue is a learning lesson for many here on KFC. *Most* of the time, all goes well.....and yes, I still worry, but that's the "Mama" in me.....

Janene

[Laura C]

Another thing to consider about what you read on KFC is the relative inexperience of many of the people posting about these problems and catastrophes. Most of them don't have a clue about caring for large animals in general, no practical experience with dairy cows in specific and on top of all that they want to do everything cheap or free.

When I read about how people want to have "grass fed jerseys" or can't afford to call the vet my head starts spinning around in circles. If people can't afford feed and the occasional vet bill then they can't afford to own livestock in my opinion. I know times are tight everywhere but as an owner you have to be able to meet the basic needs of the animals you are responsible for.

These commercial dairy cows are not (mostly) bred for grass only! If you want a hardy cow get something dual purpose like a shorthorn or a dairy x beefer.

The other thing that just continually boggles my mind is that people jump into this with no training, education or experience. Go work at a dairy farm for a little while, take a class or apprentice with someone. Anything to get some training.

I totally agree with Ann's #1 and #2 comments.

stamper, you had the worst luck ever with your little heifer. That was a freak occurrence. It just broke my heart. I hope you find your special cow when you are ready. Don't let all the tragedy posts put you off.

[Becky]

Stamper, the forum is most definitely skewed. Like several other people have mentioned, we don't come here and post, "WOW!! You know what!? We went ALL YEAR without an incident or vet bill!!" I have had Sal for 6 years. Yes, stuff has happened. Foot rot one year. Severe teat laceration once, and full blown mastitis this last year. So, I treated the foot rot for 2 weeks. I worked on that laceration for 29 days, and I worked on the mastitis for about 6 weeks all together. So, I have had to "doctor" on her 85 days in the 2190 days I have had her. She has never gone down and required 24/7 care, never had ketosis, and never had milk fever. My heifer, Sarah, I have had her for 912 days. I have not had to do a single thing so far. She calved with no assistance, and stepped into the milking room and was no problem. A little antsy, but as a newly freshened heifer goes, she was/is a dream. It isn't all tragedy and loss, but it sure does happen. Just the last couple weeks I had 2 does kid. One with triplets and the other with quads. The triplets were ALL tangled up, but I managed to get them out and 2 were fine, but I lost one. The one with quads ad a bad presentation and I managed to get those ones out too, but I lost one of them too. One of my bottle calves sucked something into his stomach and poked a hole in it. Of course, I didn't know what what was going on, but I knew I needed to put him down, so I shot him and did my own necropsy. That was when I found that hole. So, it isn't all warm and fuzzy, but it sure is a joyous way of life. Please, don't quit.

It is kind of marriage. You have to take it for better or worse, in sickness and in health, 'til death or sale do you part. There are more good days than bad, that is for sure

Becky

[Becky]

Feb 3, 2013 10:54:12 GMT -5 Laura C said:

Another thing to consider about what you read on KFC is the relative inexperience of many of the people posting about these problems and catastrophes. Most of them don't have a clue about caring for large animals in general, no practical experience with dairy cows in specific and on top of all that they want to do everything cheap or free.

When I read about how people want to have "grass fed jerseys" or can't afford to call the vet my head starts spinning around in circles. If people can't afford feed and the occasional vet bill then they can't afford to own livestock in my opinion. I know times are tight everywhere but as an owner you have to be able to meet the basic needs of the animals you are responsible for.

These commercial dairy cows are not (mostly) bred for grass only! If you want a hardy cow get something dual purpose like a shorthorn or a dairy x beefer.

The other thing that just continually boggles my mind is that people jump into this with no training, education or experience. Go work at a dairy farm for a little while, take a class or apprentice with someone. Anything to get some training.

That is just nasty and uncalled for. Knock it off.

[pipergrey93]

I have to disagree with Laura on this. I've found most who want to have grass only cows are more concerned with going all natural rather than costs. And for the most part, once they find out it usually does not work out well for most dairy cows, they do feed grain. I also disagree that most people who have health issues with their cows, have then b/c they were too cheap to invest in a good cow. We all know that dairy cows have had a lot of health bred out of them in the name of ever higher production. Also, most KFCers spare no expense on these girls. If they weren't all wrapped up in their cows as pets, most wouldn't be on here.

We all have to start somewhere and have to learn and there is a sharp learning curve for sure. Those here on KFC tend the be some of the most conscientious cow owners around. We should never try to shame those who have made mistakes (we all have), or make those who didn't make mistakes, second guess themselves. And as far as having cows if you can't afford a lot of vet bills, the poor want healthy milk too. Plus, as we also know, most vets are worthless when it comes to issues specific to dairy cows. I paid mine a fortune to make my cow worse. Looking back, I wish I had skipped calling him and relied on those who are experienced and willing to help. It had nothing to do with money, and the next cow issue I had, I did skip the vet. I relied on dairy farmers instead. This time my girl lived.

Those who are new to cows and KFC reading harsh judgments posted might not ask an important questions for fear of being judged and that would be the real shame. Sandy

[nvjersey]

I got Sunny Belle a year and a half ago. She's 9 now. A backyard bred Jersey, so has always been a family cow. She's been the perfect "teacher" for me and my boys. Other than a small bout of mastitis (a week with the Today treatment cleared her up) she has been healthy and hassle free.
I halter her in the pasture and throw the leadrope over her hips, open the gate and meet her at the milking barn door.

I live in the middle of Angus beefer cow country. There's a few Herefords here and there, but everything else is Angus. There's a few diary cows hiding on some of the ranches that dot the landscape, but they are mostly nurse cows, not family cows.
So I had NO ONE to study under, to ask questions, to give me any hands on experience. I popped in here now and then, read anything Dairy cow I could get my hands on to learn about these "other" bovines.

Hubby grew up on a ranch, and I have a good handful of rancher friends that can *sometimes* help with questions about my other cows, but I was always a horse person. This has all been a learn as I go experience.

My oldest son took her and her calf to the county fair 4-H show.
We were the oddity in the 4-H barn, the "anorexic cow" (as one teenage passerby said) in a barn full of said Angus and Herefords.
But boy were we popular! The old timer ranchers and wives enjoyed her, stopping to tell me stories of their ranch family cows and milking experiences "back in the day". Reliving their memories with us.

City families that strolled through would stop and show the little kids "See that? That's where milk comes from!". How fun that was! And my oldest boy, 10 at the time, got an invaluable lesson in public speaking! He explained her breed, her history, what I was doing at milking time, why she looked so different than the other cows in the barn. We took his demonstration board to put in her stall so he could show people lots of different dairy cow breeds.

I was nervous to milk in the cow barn. Milking time ended up being the most popular time! She was so laid back and steady that a good handful of other 4-Hers got a little try at milking a cow as well.

[Laura C]

I don't think it is nasty at all. Just the truth. It is a recipe for disaster to have a high maintenance animal with a person with no knowledge or experience. We see it nearly every single day on this forum.

Edit - You know the more I think about this the more I think it is ludicrous to expect that people who know nothing about large animals and nothing about dairy cows can just merrily be on their way with a family cow. In the horse world, for example, beginners take lessons to learn to ride and board their horse somewhere. They don't just buy a horse, take it home, tie it to a tree and try to figure out how the saddle works. That is nuts! Why are dairy cows any different?

If some beginner family cow owners take a word of caution from my post GREAT. I wish they would. Go make friends with a dairy farmer and learn about cow care and milking before you get a cow.

Soon it will be milk fever season and the cows will be dropping like flies. It was horrendous last spring. I am dreading it.

Becky, would you like me to PM you with specific examples?

[pipergrey93]

Laura, the inexperienced on here have a wealth of experience to rely on. That's why we're here no? Many of these cows are coming from dairies where life ain't that great for them and a loving home with someone inexperienced who cares and is trying to learn is preferable.

"Just the truth".... that's your opinion and many of us don't agree.

The new to diary cows ask questions b/c they don't know but want to know. THESE are not the people who are the problems. Making them feel that way will only make them more likely to try to figure it out on their own. Minimally, if not outright nasty, your post was very judgmental, not helpful, and not necessary. Just my opinion.......Sandy

[Laura C]

Sandy, I respect your point of view and I see some truth in what you say.

I still don't think it is judgmental to say that some people do not know things about cow care. That is a fact, not a judgement. If you don't know the signs and treatment for milk fever then you simply don't know. It is a fact. A judgement would be saying that person had bad intentions or was careless. I am not saying that. I am saying that the fact is that many people do not possess the skills and information they need for the animals that they acquire and as a result they have disasters which they come here to KFC looking for help with which is the topic of this thread.

I will leave you all in peace now. I am sorry if my point of view is a challenge but I also know there are many of us who think like I do. That is just my opinion.

[richard olson]

wonderful posts,almost like poetry,thanks for sharing.anyone else?

[marseydoats]

Feb 3, 2013 12:47:07 GMT -5 Laura C said:

Edit - You know the more I think about this the more I think it is ludicrous to expect that people who know nothing about large animals and nothing about dairy cows can just merrily be on their way with a family cow. In the horse world, for example, beginners take lessons to learn to ride and board their horse somewhere. They don't just buy a horse, take it home, tie it to a tree and try to figure out how the saddle works. That is nuts.

Stuff like that happens in the horse world every day, That's why people and horses get hurt and killed. That's why there's a constant influx of people in and out of the horse business.
Dh and I just bought a decent AQHA stud from a beginner rider with 3 toddlers. Guy didn't know how to put a halter on. And he actually did take the horse home and tie him to a tree because he didn't have a fence to keep him in. Nice guy, but totally clueless...