bull three-legged lame

[corrae]

Hi All--
I realize that this guy is not a family cow, but......
I'm hoping someone can give some advice on this injury... Have a yearling Angus bull who's been out with the "girls"--doing his thing, so to speak. Some time over the weekend he must have fallen in a hole, or something--his right hind hock is HUGE and he won't touch his foot to the ground--he's hobbling around miserably. Brought him to vet. Vet looked and said that realistically the best we can hope for is a 50-50 shot at recovery. Obviously, this bull is NOT tame, NOT used to being handled, and NOT in a happy mood. Vet's recommendation: Nuflor, banamine, keep him quiet, hose the hock, apply dmso and furacin in a wrap if I can manage it. (The bull will not tolerate a wrap...I'd be taking a huge chance of a broken arm to even attempt it..) That said, I hosed the hock yesterday and today for 30 mins. Today I put furacin and dmso on the clean hock just plain, no wrap... Bull was incredibly compliant (you should see me, 125 lbs, and yes, I know this is bad bad bad--in flip flops--coaxing a reluctant 1200 lb bull to go into the chute.... He was quite a gentleman and humored me--there is no other explanation...) Anyone else out there have advice/suggestions? Deal with something similar? I am very motivated to give this guy every chance he needs.... I've already told DH that this is going to take months--and he is NOT to tell me to send him down the road when he's not sound in 10 days.... Thanks and I hope someone chimes in w/more experience than me....

[parndt]

Oh man, I'd be in tears if something like that happened to my bull! It sounds to me like you are doing what you can. I would do no less for my Cody boy.

[Laura C]

I have personally known 4 bulls with bad injuries to hind legs and they all got sold for pound price, none recovered. Two busted fetlocks, one abscessed foot, one injured hip. I would give it 30 days. If its broken...well.. he is probably toast. That he is not weight bearing is a really bad sign.

Remember, IV Banamine only, there is no established meat withdrawal for any other route of administration.

Put your boots on!

[corrae]

I know.....it doesn't look good at all.... My heart is breaking for him... <sigh> I keep telling myself this is the cost of doing business... but it doesn't stop the tears from coming. If hoping and trying could fix him it would...but I don't have a good feeling either.

[beelady]

can the vet not xray it? he would have to sedate the bull but it would be worth it to find out now instead of later on when you have your whole heart into it.

[corrae]

Yes, he can... And I'm thinking it's going to be worth the $$ to find out now, as you say, rather than later... I will give him a call tomorrow. <sigh> This upsets me to no end.

[Shawn]

If it ends up being only a bad sprain, I'd get the comfrey on him for 15 minutes at a time. It really does work wonders.
He's compliant because he knows you're trying to help him. That cold water probably felt really good to him.
Best of luck.

[beelady]

they make horse aspirin. that is also used for cows.. they are huge boluses.. ask the vet if that would help.. it woudl take down swelling and thin the blood a bit so it flows better there.. hope it comes out ok..

[Jenn]

Aspirin, potassium (cream of tartar) are anti inflammatory. I have no experience with broken bones, but potassium will help with the swelling.

-Jenn

[corrae]

YAY--thanks for the great advice. Where can I find comfrey--because I live in what is technically high plains desert, and it is indeed a desert this year--we've not had measurable precipitation since January... So--comfrey--how do I make a poultice out of that? And cream of tartar--that's easy--but how much to dose a 1200# bull with? I was definitely thinking of doing the aspirin... but believe it or not, I have none, everything is closed, and I'm just going to hose him again and dmso/furacin and tomorrow he'll get the gigantic horse aspirin....
My husband has hope--his comment was that he's had bulls in this situation before and they came out of it--with lots of rest and good care. It's hotter than the blazes here, he does have access to the run in, but is not in it--it may be too difficult for him to step up into it, and of course he's black as midnight and the sun is beating down. If he were my horse he'd be on stall rest.... What do you all think of that? I have a lovely barn with excellent stalls--I could put him in a 12x24 stall and he wouldn't have to walk anywhere for water or feed. Advice?

[marseydoats]

Can you get him in the barn without danger to yourself? If so, I'd bed a stall like knee deep (I prefer shavings but some bulls, mine included, EAT them!) and just leave him in there.
Best of luck, be careful! And do put your boots on!

[simplynaturalfarm]

Just a quick mention - you used two products not approved for use in cattle - furacin and DMSO. I am not sure why your vet recommended them as if this fellow ends up being shipped AND in the food chain you could be in a lot of trouble. Hmm, if nothing else, don't use those two again and keep him for a while before shipping. If you butcher him that is fine, but if he ends up in the food chain and tested (and they are pulling a LOT of animals PLUS you can't ship a lame without them automatically testing), they will trace it back to you.
I know many many here use those products on their food animals and I only mention it in case you did not know those are not something to be used without some serious thought as to where the animal is eventually going to end up.
I didn't understand what the final diagnosis was - broken hock?
Heather

[Becky]

Heather has a good point about the DMSO and Furacin. At the auction here, you have to sign an affidavit regarding medications. Cold hose, comfrey, and compression will help him A LOT. Comfrey is also known as "bone knit".

Aside from your bull, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!! Put on some shoes!!

This was about 2 days after getting stepped on WEARING solid topped shoes:


This was about 10-12 after the initial stomping:


Shoes please

Becky

[meandmygirls]

OUCH! I've been kicked, thrown & knocked, but never stepped on. I wear steel toe boots 95% of the time....just in case.

[corrae]

I hear ya--and yes, I generally DO wear shoes....when I worked him the first time, he was being, well, so good, and it just sort of happened that I didn't change out of flip flops--but yes, shoes are a must!!! ;D

Also--when I finished hosing him this afternoon, I had opened the big barn door and left the door to the stall open, just if he wanted to amble (hobble) over. Can you believe--he shuffled right on in without a second thought. He sampled the fresh clean water, started eating hay, and you would think he'd been brought up being stalled instead of out on the range. He's deeply bedded on sweet fresh straw, he's in a 12X12 stall with a great view of the other cows/horses in their paddocks, and Norman, the Jersey steer calf across the aisle. He is now out of the HOT sun, he does not have to walk to the feeder or the waterer, it's all there for him. The barn is also about 99% fly free. Plus this makes it a lot easier for me to hose him. He only has to walk about 20 feet to the chute.

Thank you for the advice on him entering the food chain--the only food chain he'll possibly enter is ours--and a ways down the road. I will not ship him anywhere. I am well aware of the dangers/risks of DMSO/furacin--but it is a very good anti-inflammatory as well. I'm going to try to find some comfrey and see what I can do there. He'll begin getting aspirin tomorrow.
OUCH--Becky--your poor poor foot....that is so incredibly painful--I hope you're healed up.

He's being very very quiet and well-mannered. Rest assured--I never turn my back on him, I do not trust him, and he is NOT a pet. But he is a life, and he deserves every chance. I'm pretty determined about this--and I'm very very good with injuries--though most of my experience is w/horses. And believe me, I've worked on horses who have been far less cooperative than our Bully Bull. Thank you all--I will keep updating as needed.

[Shawn]

If my comfrey weren't so shriveled up from drought, I'd ship you some leaves. Anyone else have some they can mail her?

You just cut the leaves up with scissors, (probably two large leaves would be enough) and salt them (drives out the moisture). Then I place this on a piece of plastic wrap and wrap around the affected area. I use plastic wrap because it sticks to itself. Leave on for about 15 minutes is all.
I had a heifer pivot off my pinkie toe and it looked real similar to the pics above. I shouldn't have been able to even bend it, but two applications of comfrey, one the night it happened, one the next morning, and I literally did not have any pain in it unless I bent it all the way under. Amazing.
Good luck. That boy is being really good for you, but stay safe.

[corrae]

I went to health food store and picked up 1/2 lb of dried comfrey....so NOW what do I do with it??? I'm going to try rehydrating it (not all--my goodness if all you need is 2 large leaves, I should have enough for a bit.) then smearing it on the plastic wrap and leave it on the leg for a bit. Of course, vet's is closed today and no place else has horse aspirin--and DUH I was all the way home before I thought, "Oh, I can get it at the grocery store..." We shall see how the comfrey does. I don't want to give him another banamine shot, especially when he is SO SO SO good about going in the chute for me....SO I may run back to town to get aspirin. I DO have a tiny bottle of children's aspirin--but seriously, I don't think a bottle would even touch this guy's pain. The farrier is coming any moment to shoe for me, and I'll work on Bully Bull when we are done w/the horse. He really is being exceptional--when he hobbled into the stall last night my mouth dropped open--this is a range bull who's never EVER been in a barn or even a small paddock. He went right in and turned around like he was saying, "Yup, this is just fine, ma'am...thank you kindly." What a good boy.

[Jenn]

Potassium is water soluble and is not retained well in the body, so small doses multiple times is better than one large dose...
An adult human needs between 4500-10,000 mg potassium. A tsp is about 1000 mg, if I remember correctly. Excess, taken orally, is dumped by the bowels...like magnesium...but it takes a LOT more to cause loose stools.

-Jenn

[corrae]

Jenn--

Thanks for the info on potassium... I'll give a couple teaspoonfuls w/his grain tonight. Can't hurt, might help. I may be seeing things, or seeing what I want to see, but this afternoon it looked like he was flexing his hock a little...just a little, but flexing nonetheless. And the farrier noted that he *did* put weight on it to move--just a tiny bit, but he did touch hoof to ground. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I can always always hope. And we are both trying hard, him and me, I think.

[elnini]

Do you think glucosamine might help the joint healing ?