Is this the beginning of harder times

[Laurieks]

I was telling my husband and mom that last week was my pivot point of seeing things change. Buying Easter food and goodies was like WOW! I have been preparing for high food prices for quite some time, and watching prices, they have been slowly going up, but I think it is starting to go up faster now. I see, and I am no expert that the start of summer will not look the same as the end of summer. I only let Lacey do baseball this summer. I have been rethinking our summer activities to more home life. Pushing up the learning to do things, well maybe more that I know how but now doing. Like homemade tortillas. I am going to try to stop buying them and making them. I think the time for being lazy because it is so cheap to just buy it is ending. I have been ready and prepared, I feel most of us here, already live this way, but it is going to be hard for those who don't. I hope I am wrong. We had good friends over for Easter, their daughter lives in California with 3 children, they are drowning, they won't let go of "I live at the beach in California" I feel for them, basically living day by day wondering if they will have food for their children but holding on to their Disneyland annual tickets and trying to keep up with the Jones's. I am not saying they are wrong but that I feel bad because life is going to smack them in the face even harder soon. Sad because what they want is that life and they workes hard for it, they put themselves out and started a great business but with hard times that is crashing. I feel we are all so blessed, I could of wanted that, I came from California but dreamed of cows and no people, how blessed I am that what my husband and I dreamed of and worked hard for maybe what gets us threw hard times. Well I am going on and on, just does anyone else feel the time to prepare is coming to an end, and now we are moving to a time to survive.
Laurie

[BasleeBackwoodsFarm]

I think about this more and more every day. I have also gotten my kids (well my daughters) to thinking and they have started stocking up too. I have even been buying canned veggies, etc. because I do not know if/when I am going to get my garden in and how well it will do.
We have been without a milk cow now for almost 3 years but I am seriously considering getting one again just for these reasons. I can/am getting eggs from my parents neighbor but who knows if they will continue so probably need to get chickens again too. We do not drink much milk now that the kids are out of the house but I can still supply them and make butter, etc. to save money for us and them. (example: I paid $5.00 per pound of butter just two weeks ago and so I definately feel the hurt.)
Kinda off the subject but my in-laws were down for Easter yesterday and my mom and mom-in-law got to talking about how high groceries were and gonna get worse and my mom-in-law said that is one reason why her and father-in-law eat out so much. They can both eat for like $10.00 per meal and she doesn't think that she can cook cheaper. I told her yes, she could and it would be a whole lot healthier. Not something out of a bag and warmed up and put on the buffet. I think I kinda shocked her. lol The subject was pretty much closed after that.
Anyway, now I'm rambling but yes times are getting harder and we are gonna have to put to use our skills more and more, I agree.

[treatlisa]

I'm right there with ya, Laurie. I feel a need to continue getting as self reliant as possible. I like to explain it like I am just exercising my abilities to do things that are a little less convenient. At this point I will still take the *convenient* way sometimes, because I don't *have* to do the other yet. But I actually enjoy tinkering with learning the *old ways*, practicing and experimenting. For example, I am getting ready to try and make sauerkraut this week for the first time. That seems an odd thing for me to do because my DH and grown kids probably won't eat any of it. But I just want to know how. The time may come where they would be very happy to eat sauerkraut.... Still hoping that won't ever be the case...but in my mind it won't hurt to learn this skill.

I'm pretty sure it is not cheaper to keep my cow and chickens because the cost of feed is very high for me, but that is not the point right now...it is more about learning and acquiring skills that will be useful as things tighten up. I'm starting to find myself hoping for a heifer when my jersey calves the end of May. I had bred her to a corriente bull (because that is what was handy at the right time) but now I'm starting to think IF it is a heifer and IF...(there are a lot of ifs) all went well - I may consider trying to keep her for a replacement cow... Based on the fact that corrientes are so very hardy, add a little jersey blood and who knows? I may end up with a very sturdy little milker...It might be just the ticket for me... of course this is quite a pipe dream right now....just sayin'.

Anyway, personally I am following the small voice inside that is encouraging me to explore these things...maybe I am just looney, maybe I really am concerned for no good reason... but this is something I have to do regardless of what other people think. Really glad to know there are others out there feeling the same way. I can only say again for the umpteenth time how grateful I am for this board... I shudder to think of me blindly plowing my way through this farm thing without out all the knowledge here at my fingertips... I would stiil be trying, but I am very aware, it would be a much more difficult and daunting task.... Lisa

[gardengranny(KS)]

This is a very interesting thread, and I am very glad to see it. I thought that it just might have been me seeing all of prices going up and up in the stores. With a family of 9 we can not afford all the simple things from the store. Not to mention how unhealthy the prepackaged things are. I experienced the benefits of being as self-sufficient as possible first hand.

My husband took a job with the railroad and I didn't think much about it at first, but for the last 7 years of him working for the RR he has been laid off for several months each year. Things were getting very tight and we made the decision to sell our home to purchase something much less expensive. We were lucky enough to find a farmhouse in a very tiny rural town only 4 miles from my hometown. We moved in September of 2008 and the neighbor kindly came over with his plow and turned a spot in the yard for a garden, so I planned all winter the great garden I was going to have.

Our spring consisted of planting the garden and trying to make plans of what we wanted to start next. The next summer we bought chickens and built a coop. This year I added two dairy goats. We are slowly making our way to being self-sufficient.

I started with a small garden and canning everything from it and gathering all the wild fruits I could find and canning them too. I've learned that buthering our own meat, canning everything from veggies, fruits and meat really made me feel more secure. I bake all our own breads and make our own noodles. It's been a hard road to learn, but it has been very rewarding. Our older three kids think that I am nuts, but the younger four still have fun helping in the garden and the kitchen.

My garden is now much larger with a smaller one off the to side, we have laying hens, two dairy goats, 7 fruit trees, and we raise meat birds every spring and buy a buther steer and a hog every year. I have the security of knowing that when and if my husband gets laid off again we have freezers full of meat and shelves full of food.

I'm not to the point where I want to be but I am getting closer. This year I hope to add a few more trees and maybe one more goat. Hopefully we can get the small pasture across the road someday and I can then add my cow.

I'm so happy to have found this site because everyone has been so helpful and encouraging. So all I can say to anyone struggling is to hang in there and learn to fend for yourselves, start small and don't get overwhelmed. I'm in it now for the long haul and I'm leading the charge with a questioning husband, 3 very reluctant teenagers, and 4 younger kids that think this thing is fun.

Holly ;D

[WoodSpryte Farm/Tiffany]

I was talking with a new share holder today about all this. Really between the gas and the store prices things do seem to be sky rocketing. I am lucky, because we are ALREADY fairly self sufficent.
besides things as toilet paper, paper towels ect, we dont shop much, and honestly we have not shopped in over 4 months. Friends and family and even my own husband used to think I was nuts, as we have been doing this for a few years now, but suddenly, Im looking NOT so silly now am I.. lol
I encourage everyone that has a skill, to do classes and help others to learn. Canning, spinning, knitting, soaps, baking.. you would be surprised the things people are INTERESTED in learning, but are afraid to try and waste money. I have more people wanting classes for canning, preserving and cheese making than I can teach in a summer. some dont even have gardens, however farm markets and stands are still a great way to get enough to can. Road side berries are free..
Im with you all.. if we dont take care of our selves we are gonna be in deep trouble soon. Those that live in the city with NO skills are sooner or later gonna head out to where we all are and things will get ugly. I pray it doesnt come to that, so I am doing everything i can to help teach others. They did it 200 years ago, we can do it again now.. hang tuff everyone..
Tif

[gardengranny(KS)]

Tif,
That is a great idea, teaching classes. I've thought of that several times but didn't know how to go about it. Do you have to have teaching experience? Where would I start? I'm still fairly new, but I've taught myself so much from books and older women that I am friends with. I think that there would be an interest here for those types of classes. I have had several friends want to come over when I'm planting a garden, canning or baking. Unfortunately we have not been able to get our times together. They work full time and I'm a homemaker. They always seem to be running and busy during canning season. Any information on how to start a class or two would be very much appreciated.
Holly

[Leimana]

Oh my goodness, I just never feel like I could do enough to be ready for a real crunch! I only have 150 sq ft of gerden, it supplies us with a lot of food but not enough! Luckily I can garden all year but the weather can be so tough here....too hot...too wet etc. The cow makes milk but looks like if I want milk all year I better get another cow, but then I have to feed it.....yikes. Gas is well over 5$ a gallon and propane is almost 6$ a gallon and work seems scarce, even though we havnt been without anything we need. I dont like goats milk but maybe I ought to learn to like it and get a couple of girls in milk. Are goats big eaters??? I am determined not to drown under all this financial pressure and know that I am cared for and will always be taken care of. Luckily we own our humble 3 acres and the only "payment" we have is our 8000$ car we finally broke down and bought because it cost us more than the monthly payments of this car to keep all our other junkers running all the time! We have about 100 fruit trees like avocadoes and citrus and coconuts etc and bananas galore but somehow it still feels like not enough. Funny though, in perspective it is like the "Jones" who can never have enough but their not enough is things like cars and toys and boats or what not and most of us here its food and cows:)

[gardengranny(KS)]

Leimana,
I have never had goat milk before, but we did not have the space for a cow so I found two good milking does. I've had them about three weeks now and we got a bale of good prairie hay that weighs approx. 200 pounds. They are still eating it, I also feed alfalfa cubes and a goat mix. While I milk I feed a molasses mixed goat feed. They don't seem to go through a lot of feed. The milk of my nubian is exactly like cow's milk, my lamancha is a little stronger but good when I mix the two evenly. Try the goat milk before you buy a goat if you can. Good luck in your decision, they haven't eaten me out of house and home yet. ;D
Holly

[Janene]

Y'all are right--things aren't getting any cheaper!
Skills DO help--and I think the more we know and learn, it actually empowers us to try to do more as we know we can get done what we need to be done.

My fruit trees are young, but they are growing--and I am determined to get even more canned this year. I don't want a repeat of last years' small crop(s)! So I am hoping for better weather, and more plants should help as well!

My one niece-in-law just asked me about getting more self-sufficient Sunday--she is determined to learn any skill she can. So I lent her my Encyclopedia of Country Living (so she can learn some things now)--she was on cloud nine! I also told her to come over when I start canning and I'll teach her how, or my niece can also teach her. I see myself 20-odd years ago....lets hope she's not as stubborn as me!
I'm just excited a 'youngster' wants to tag along and learn.

Reality for some folks will hit hard, very very hard. Sometimes it takes hitting rock bottom to realize what life is about--and it's not keeping up with the Jones'. Being 'too busy' when things are ready to be harvested shows me they aren't in a mind-set of what needs to be done and when. Food has to be put as a priority, not just 'when we have time' type of thinking. People know right now whatever they need/want IS at a store, so things can be put off for another day. For now.

I am the type that will help someone learn, but I won't do it for them. Then it's too easy for them to take things for granted, and not appreciate all the work that goes into whatever is being made/harvested/butchered, etc.
Janene

[Laurieks]

I am pretty lucky that most people in our area know how to can, butcher, garden ect..... I felt like when we moved here we jumped back in time.

[kristi]

I won't make a long post, just agree with you all that things are getting worse. My parents and I were discussing earlier this week how fortunate we are to have already started gaining some of the skills we need to get through the tough times that are coming. It's not a question of "if" but "when". Gardening, canning, animal husbandry, etc takes time to learn and while books are good hands on is a whole new ball game. I've been surprised (I work at a grocery store) at how few people know how to cook anymore. No one buys ingredients, mostly processed foods. I speak with people all the time about this and you have half look at you like you're nuts and the other half are trying to become self sufficient like we are.

I've taught one girl how to process chickens because no one else would show her. I've offered to teach another lady to can but she lives so far away it's not really feasible. I really wish I had a bigger kitchen (2 just don't fit) so I could advertise that I would give lessons. It's not even about the money, it's about teaching others how to do things to survive. We have lost so much knowledge these past few generations and it's time consuming to learn them when it's trial and error. And while I may be ahead of the curve, I still feel woefully inadequate and unprepared.

[WoodSpryte Farm/Tiffany]

I have found that I bump into people everywhere. Of course, as you all probably have figured out, Im a talker. But I figure the only way to learn is to ask, take a chance on NOT knowing everything so you can learn a little bout it all. My family (parents, sister, and us) all help each other. we grow things the others cannot or run out of room for. we trade. We get together and have pasta making parties, husbands, sons, fathers, sisters mothers, neices.. ect.. we can knock out enough pasta in an afternoon to last 6 months for each family!
I dont think you have to be a teacher to teach.. talk to your friends. everyone has some talents. have a talent day.. or organize something at the church. If you dont know how to do something, ask a town elder if she would teach a class. there are just so many ways. We are just 3 people now, but I help numerous friends with canning, and drying and preserving. if they supply the goods, I only charge a small amount.
suggestion for you all that want fresh milk and dont want goats. SHEEP.. No your NOT going to get gallons and gallons.. BUT in the 3-4 months a cow is dry you can get enough to put on the kids cereal and do some baking with. Our 1 ewe, is giving 3/4 gallon a day. NO not allot, but its enough to get us by if we needed to. and while they eat MORE than a goat, they dont eat nearly as much as a cow.
we do allot of our canning outside. a turkey cooker is our tomato cooker during tomato season. We usually put up about 200-250 qts a year. Mikes job is crock pickles, i do the sour kraute, beans and carrots who ever.. corn family. 2 years ago my sister and I met at our mom and dads and we all did tomatos.. we kicked out almost 100 qts just that day alone. we had the stove, 2 turkey cookers and the big grill all cooking tomato. To save time, we chop our onions and peppers and garlic ahead of time and just add when we start. I can honestly say, if everything fell apart tomorrow, we could survive well. my biggest fear would be those that cannot, and instead of asking for help, which I am always willing to give, they will come to TAKE. Unfortunately we also have guns and tho I would hate to have to use one, to protect my family I will, as im sure most of you would as well. So enabling others is my goal. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day give a man a pole and teach him to use it and he will eat for a lifetime!!! Knowledge is POWER.. be inventive ...

[kristi]

Apr 28, 2011 23:30:57 GMT -5 WoodSpryte Farm/Tiffany said:

my biggest fear would be those that cannot, and instead of asking for help, which I am always willing to give, they will come to TAKE. Unfortunately we also have guns and tho I would hate to have to use one, to protect my family I will, as im sure most of you would as well. So enabling others is my goal. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day give a man a pole and teach him to use it and he will eat for a lifetime!!! Knowledge is POWER.. be inventive ...

I think you've touched on a subject many are tiptoeing around. Kind of like the elephant in the room that no one will look at. I agree that I would hate to use the weapons we have, but they are there to protect my family. My first priority is my family. Not to say I won't help people out if they are in need, I've done that and will continue. But if you are going to go to the lengths to gather, store and prepare then you have to be willing to protect it. Otherwise there is no point in any of this, IMO.

[Jessika]

My husband and the owner of the only grocery store in town had a discussion about this and the man says to my husband, " When things get really bad, WHEN not IF, you're gonna see a shift in power and suddenly YOU guys are gonna be the wealthiest ones around with that farm and the ability to grow your own food and livestock. Better stock up on ammunition now!"
It did get us thinking. My concern had been making sure we were prepared to feed ourselves, didn't even think about desperate people who are not prepared coming to take ours, and stealing or killing our cows for food. Scary thought isn't it?
Jessika

[Laurieks]

What a neat family Tiffany. That would be so fun to have group events to do things, I am lucky I have my mom and children, but that is so cool.

I read alot of news, and it is scary how violent and non caring so many people are, I still think they are not the norm, but a few bad apples sure can ruin things. Life is not very well respected and that scares me.

I wonder how low our value of the dollar is going to go. I wonder how long people can mantain thier life styles.

[ellie]

I heard a quote today: "What makes us secure? Community." Hard times have come and will come again. So what? Hard times are old news. There will always be hard times around the corner. And people will act exactly the way people always act. Which is to say, most folks will be decent and some will be sorry and a few will be horrible. But mostly, with a spirit of inventiveness and determination, folks will forge communities and get along just fine. Partly because there is safety and strength in community. Don't worry so much. By all means, be self reliant. Then turn a kind and open hand to help a neighbor. And we will all be okay.

Apart from environmental destruction, things are actually looking up in our country. The economy is getting slowly better. Jobs are slowly increasing. We are slowly becoming energy self reliant, which will further stabilize our economy. If the earth will keep producing food, everything is going to be okay.

[Laurieks]

Ellie wish I had your Pollyanna look on things. I don't see things impoving. I do have faith in God, LOVE my country and am not paniced, just concerned and feel it is better to prepare for the worst and pray for the best. As our dollar devalues it will be harder and harder for people to live. With Christopher in a wheel chair I have had to drive him to school, an extra 60 miles of driving a day, that has cost quite a chunck of money, I feel for people driving to work everyday, it has to be digging in their check book. I am a pollyanna, always looking for the good, content with what I have, but on this topic, my gut is telling me other ways. Part of me is having fun, it has esculated my self reliance which is what I enjoy.

[pipergrey93]

Ellie - many think that the economy is getting better b/c the stock market is up. The only reason it's up and companies have gone back to hiring is b/c the Federal Reserve is printing money out of thin air at an unprecedented rate. There's almost no way at this point to avoid stagflation (high unemployment coupled with high inflation). When "QE 2" runs out in June, you will see the stock market get hammered. The Federal Reserve will use that as a excuse to print more money (QE 3). You will hear, "we have to 'inject liquidity' (print more money) to avoid a massive depression.

While I would love to believe that things will turn around, our fundamentals are not only not sound, they have never in our history been this fragile. The printing press has never in all recorded history gotten a country out of a financial crisis. Yes - hard times and economic fluctuations have always been a part of life, however, we have never had this much debt, printed this much money, and had all the current entitlement programs at the same time.

By the Federal Reserve's own admission, "we are in unchartered waters" economically. Not really. Many societies throughout history that have relied on a fiat currency system (a currency not backed by gold or some other commodity) have done just as we are doing and in the end they all failed. Starting with Rome. No one knows this any better than Ben Bernanke himself, but hell, he has his own printing press so why should he worry about inflation? Inflation that he still refuses to admit is even a problem.

The only hope I hold out is that folks are staring to realize just who the Federal Reserve is and what they do evidenced by the historical press conference on Thursday. Thomas Jefferson warned us repeatedly not to allow central banksters to control the currency or we would wake up as slaves in a country that our fore fathers founded. It is why we broke from Great Britain after all.

As the dollar becomes more and more worth-less due to all the printing, you will see gold, silver, and every other commodity go sky high. This is a huge red flag that the dollar is going to collapse if we stay the current path.

Wish I had my own printing press.....sandy


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies - Thomas Jefferson

[ellie]

many think that the economy is getting better b/c the stock market is up. The only reason it's up and companies have gone back to hiring is b/c the Federal Reserve is printing money out of thin air at an unprecedented rate. There's almost no way at this point to avoid stagflation (high unemployment coupled with high inflation). When "QE 2" runs out in June, you will see the stock market get hammered. The Federal Reserve will use that as a excuse to print more money (QE 3). You will hear, "we have to 'inject liquidity' (print more money) to avoid a massive depression.

I would feel a lot more moved by that if I understood where the information is coming from. Our country is dumping money into independent energy resources. Energy independence will stabilize the economy and level gas pump anxiety. My husband drives 80 miles round trip everyday, so don't mistake my understanding of gas pain.

I'm not a polly anna. I'm looking at facts. And I'm looking deeply into everything I've ever personally seen and everything I've read about the human response to crisis. The fact is, doom is not a balanced view. I said life is hard and always has the potential to get harder. That will never change human nature in an unpredictable way. We are as we ever have been and likely ever will be.

"hard times and economic fluctuations have always been a part of life, however, we have never had this much debt, printed this much money, and had all the current entitlement programs at the same time."

Times have been much much much harder for many more folks than they are right now. The depression was much worse in the 30s. Inflation was much worse in the 70s. Social programs of the 40s were enormously successful.

The fact is, where communities are level and stable, humans are generally safe. This tells me we might should consider working harder to make our communities level and stable. Just a thought for the worried.

Read any book you care to. You won't find many stories about one family all alone surviving without the help of neighbors. I repeat: by all means make yourself as self reliant as possible. Then lend a kind and open hand to your neighbor. There is no safer strategy. And this has always been the policy of the most successful (stable unstressed healthy) modern countries.

I understand worry and concern and I think those feelings are valid. But I doubt we'll meet here in 20 years starving, depleted, at war with our neighbors, and ill. Unless the ground quits growing food and the rain quits falling. We are not being invaded. We are not about to suffer mass starvation. Our money is not going to fall to zero value.

We are going to buy electric cars, put up solar panels, build more nuclear plants, and thus have cleaner air and water and more economic prosperity. THAT is what is coming for our grandchildren. If the planet doesn't burn up in the mean time.

Just think. Twenty years ago (oh I remember this with crystaline clarity) everyone said our country could not possibly implement a recycling system. It was too expensive. It wouldn't work. It wasn't practical. There was no use for the "trash." And on and on and on went the naysayers. In NC now, it is illegal not to recycle.

Change is coming alright. And I thank God for it.

[pipergrey93]

Ellie you seem to believe that the worst is behind us making the argument that the depression was worse as well as the 70's. What I'm saying is that we have only begun to see where we are headed. Folks won't care much about green energy when the dollar collapses and they can't feed their kids.

Sadly, I believe I will be saying "I told you so" in the near future.

Keep your eye out for the following:

The bond market will collapse much like the banking industry did.

China will dump their dollars (they are already doing it) and they will no longer loan us money.

Prices on every single commodity will sky rocket (and I mean much much higher than anything we see right now).

Unemployment will again find a whole new high when the printing of money no longer fools anyone.

Once these occur you'll see:

Much much higher taxes on everyone and the remaining companies will start to flee the U.S. in droves as they will no longer be able to make a profit here.

The gov will start to renege on entitlement promises - example: raising the age dramatically for Social Security benefits.

Bernanke will start to quickly raise interest rates in an attempt to reduce the funny money in our system but he won't be able to put that Jeannie back into the bottle.

My facts are history. All the present currency manipulation has been done before and it always ends the very same way as there is no other way for it to end.

I wish I was wrong and you were right, but I'm betting that's not the case. So in the meanwhile, I am going to prepare as best I can to make the upcoming hardships less of a direct hit to me and my family.

I bought silver in 2004 knowing that it would sky-rocket as the dollar tanked. It's value has increased over 1000% to date. This doesn't make my happy b/c I know what it means. I didn't buy into silver as an investment, but a hedge against inflation and quite possibly hyper-inflation.

If and some say when the dollar collapses, the entire country will look exactly like New Orleans did right after Katrina. No food, no law, no order and no real gov help.


Again, praying you are right, but betting and preparing like you are wrong. Sandy