Burying a horse

[Shawn]

I have a few questions.
First, we're going to have to put Poco down. He's the 32 year old horse that my 7 yo has ridden for the last 2 years. He was given/loaned to us by our farrier. She had tried to give him away twice and was not happy with how he was treated, so this time gave him to us so he's close enough (3 miles) that she can keep an eye on him. Plus she does his shoes, still, and trims my mares.
He didn't come through the winter real well. His kidneys are apparently shutting down and he's had issues with his sheath and a pouch forming over his penis. We've given penicillin and cleaned and medicated, trying to help him out. But me, not knowing anything about this, didn't realize what was going on. But the last time the owner came out, she dropped the comment about the kidneys and I spoke with my vet yesterday and he confirmed that it's probably his kidneys. So he would never be ridden again anyway and it appears that he will soon start to not feel good.
So long and short of it is, my question is... how do you figure out how big a hole for a horse? He is a huge guy, easily 17+ hands and long. Also what depth?
DH has graciously agreed to get the trencher from our BIL and dig the hole for him, thus we can bury him out here, which I know will make the owner feel much better about the process.

No need for sorrow here, I'm sad for him, but he's not been my horse for 32 years, like he was for his owner. I'm sorry to see him go, he's been a fabulous horse for a 5 year old to start on and took great care of her. For that, he will always have my

And here he is when we first got him 2 years ago.

[BasleeBackwoodsFarm]

First off, I am sorry you are going through this. I know you are and are gonna be sad even though he isn't technically "your" horse.
I think you would need to measure his length and then measure his heigth and then you can probably take a third off the heigth as you should be able to bend his legs to go in the hole.
A trencher? That's not gonna scoop the dirt out for ya really as they only come so wide and you would have to trench several widths to get it wide enough for an animal his size. You'll still have to scoop the hole out.
I think you could do it with a bobcat/skid steer but a backhoe would be choice if you can get one. Would make things way faster and easier.
Forgive me if I'm mis-understanding what you mean.

[Leimana]

in the past we have used a few bags of lime to thoroughly cover the animal, and then cover with cardboard or something or leave mulch etc. The lime keeps all the smell of decomposing down and the breakdown is fast.

[Shawn]

You're right, I didn't mean trencher, I mean backhoe.

DH doesn't want to be back there when the vet puts him down, but he doesn't realize that's the peaceful part (he's used to having to use a rifle to put something down.) I feel bad for him as he has to be the one to push him in the hole with the Bobcat.

[suzorse]

my neighbor just went threw this, the exact same thing with the penis, her horse passed away within 2
weeks of showing the penis water ballon, I never went over when the other neighbor came and burried
him , sorry you have to go threw this Suzanne

[simplynaturalfarm]

Your vet would be able to help you with what size hole. And just a warning - it is not always peaceful. I was at a euthanasia of a pony and he dropped straight sideways into the hole and gave the children watching the worst nightmares that night. It does not always work as predicted!
Forgive what will sound callous now - this is from euthanasia experience. If you guys don't mind not being there or if you don't mind what will happen, the vet can probably drop him very very close to the hole and then simply roll him into the hole. The last vet I worked for always did it - she was the best horse vet and very very sweet and sensitive (nothing like your vet crying the whole time while you are trying not to cry!), but she knew exactly how to do it so that the owner didn't have to push a body into a hole, just simply cover it. It was not nasty looking, just that the horse would lay down and after death she could grab a leg and with help turn him over into the hole.
Forgive my being graphic, but I was hoping to spare your poor hubby!
And for Leimana, I do not mean to contradict you, but you do NOT want a euthanized animal to not be buried. The drug is extremely toxic/poisonous and will kill another animal that scavenges or gets into the carcass, even after the carcass has apparently degraded. It also does not degrade in the ground - it is there forever and there is a reason they have to be buried at least 4 feet down. That is one reason I am not a fan of chemical euthanasia but at the same time I am not at all able to simply put a bullet in everything! I wish there was an easy way for it to happen so that the cycle of life could continue safely without poison or toxins, but that would require me being able to shoot my own animals which is something I can't do. It is not inhumane to shoot them, I am just not able to do so. All of our clients who choose to not have the animals cremated are warned to bury their animal very deep so that no other animals are poisoned by digging it up.
Heather

[Leimana]

wow I did not know that......interesting. We dont have many carcass eating animals here...pigs, mongeese, and rats. Very few birds are scavengers here.

[Shawn]

Thanks, Heather. No worries here about being too graphic, I have to guard against that myself, as being raised a farm girl, the "practical" side of me kicks in and people wonder if I have no heart sometimes, I'm sure.
Yes, I knew the body would be toxic. I wish, too, there was some other way that would be more acceptable to all parties. When Belle went down, I had NO choice but to have the neighbor use a rifle to put her down. We absolutely couldn't get to her in the timber to get her out, dig, etc. It pained me greatly that the coyotes ate her, for the sheer reason I HATE coyotes and what they do to living livestock. It didn't honestly bother me so much that she was eaten, because that is the cycle of life, just who was doing it. (Wished I could have poisoned the coyotes in that case!)

We planned on leading him back to the area. I will talk with doc about what he wants to do in that regard. I'm sure, being an older vet, he's probably got some knowledge about how to do it, too.
I wouldn't have planned on having the kids back there anyway, but they will be at school. I'll have them say their goodbyes the night before.
Thanks, Suzanne for the info on your neighbor. That is interesting and confirms what I suspected, that this won't take long to become a very urgent situation for him.
Work has cooperated with me and it appears I have a window of time next week to try to coordinate hole digging,vet and being off.

Thanks all for the comments and help.

[blaire]

When our vet put our old horse down a few years ago (in the middle of winter) he used a pistol. I've heard horror stories about the injectable euthanasia and how grisly the death can be. The secret to killing a horse correctly with a bullet is to visualize an X between the horses ears and eyes and hitting it right in the center of the X. The right spot is NOT right between the eyes!!! This will only explode their sinuses...the right spot is higher on the head.
Again, sorry for the graphic nature of this post. I in no way mean to be flip about the end of such a special creature's life.

[marseydoats]

I'm sorry you have to do this.
We've found that the easiest way to do it is just to lead the horse into the hole and do the deed there. That way you don't have to drag them, and can just cover them up. We live on solid granite, so dh just has to scrape out the deepest hole he can manage with the tractor, which is usually a little over 4 feet deep. Then he mounds dirt over the top. I would prefer them to be 6 feet deep but we don't have that option.
Bulldozer or backhoe are easier than a tractor. Lime is a good idea, we usually put 150-200 pounds on top of the animal once they're in the hole. once they're buried, if dh feels like he didn't get them deep enough, he'll make a fire and burn off the ground to mask predator scent. We usually put some boulders on top too. And he runs hot wire around the hole to keep the others off of it.

[Joes Wife]

Hi Shawn,

We went through this in November with our 37 year old horse who we owned for 15 years. Both of my kids learned to ride and love horses because of him. IT WAS HARD!!!!

We dug the whole with a backhoe, my husband just gestamated the size (he's good at that). Like Blaire we also used a pistol because our friend the vet said it really was more humane if you do it right. Like Blaire said it is higher up on the head, not just right between the eyes. My son walked Wildfire out to the hole and my husband did the deed. He dropped right into the hole. Just fell sideways into it. Couldn't have been better planned. Very sad but we are glad we buried him. My husband promised my kids years ago that he wouldn't just drag Wildfire to the back 40 for the coyotes to get. I know that has to be done sometimes but Wildfire was pretty special and when their dad made that promise the kids held him to it.

Sorry you have to go through this, but I have learned as you have, this is just part of the farm life. Hope it all goes well.

Teresa

[Shawn]

Sad but relieved today that the deed is done.

Long story, but I'll try to be short.
His owner came out and trimmed my mares and thought we were doing it Friday, not yesterday. So she said goodbye to him. then her DH came out and said goodbye and took some tail hairs back for her.

Vet came and 7 yo DD insisted on going back with us and so she rode him back to the hole. (She was the one riding him for the past 1.5 years.)
The vet informed me that the crusty scab on his sheath was cancer. It came on VERY quickly.
He went very peacefully. I think it will be beneficial for her to have seen the process, just as important to see death in farming as new life. She cried and requested to be carried back to the house. DH took her in with him. Then he left her with 12 yo DD while he used the tractor to bury him. (We could not get him laid down in the hole or right next to it)
12 yo DD comes out while I'm finishing up some stuff and I requested her to go back in and stay with her sister. She replied "I'm not doing that baby stuff." I say you don't have to talk to her, just be there with her. So she goes back in.
I finish up immediate stuff and go in. Offer to take everybody for pizza to get away from house for a bit. We go get pizza and play a couple arcade games while we wait.
I come home and milk, do regular chores. The girls are up late since it's spring break and I go to bed before them. I get up this morning and 7 yo DD isn't in her bed, isn't in the recliner in the tv room upstairs. There are a bunch of used Kleenex in that room and finally find her in bed with 12 yo DD. I guess somebody's a softie after all.
The barn felt empty this morning without Poco's familiar "motorboat" nicker when I came to feed him. I guess Candy, my mare, sensed it, too, so she nickered in his place. But it felt really odd and out of place. That kinda got to me...

[blaire]

Thanks for the story, these times are so hard but really define who we are and are significant events for the kids.

[cccjerseys]

Mar 17, 2011 22:46:14 GMT -5 simplynaturalfarm said:

And for Leimana, I do not mean to contradict you, but you do NOT want a euthanized animal to not be buried. The drug is extremely toxic/poisonous and will kill another animal that scavenges or gets into the carcass, even after the carcass has apparently degraded. It also does not degrade in the ground - it is there forever and there is a reason they have to be buried at least 4 feet down. our clients who choose to not have the animals cremated are warned to bury their animal very deep so that no other animals are poisoned by digging it up.
Heather

What is your Vet using?? The drugs my Vets, (both out here in Kansas and in New England) have used are not even close to being toxic to anything other than what they are putting down.

To Shawn, I hope all goes well and as planned. It's never easy. We always overdug the holes when we buried the horses at the large boarding stable I worked at, just because. I being the Barn Manager was required to be present for all euthanasias. I cried though every one, even one horse I hated.

[wyomama]

Heather can answer this better, but as far as I know, the only drug used in euthanasia solutions, regardless of whether they are blue or pink or what they are named is pentobarbital sodium, which results in a very toxic carcass.

They can use potassium chloride, but I think that has to be given under general anesthesia, and it takes so much and has to be administered so quickly that I've never known it to be used "in the field".

FWIW, anything I've had put down (and I've run a boarding stable for almost 20 years) has been given pentobarbitol sodium, and I've *never* had a vet tell me that I needed to be sure and bury the carcass.

[cccjerseys]

Thank you Wyo for that info. I had forgotten about that stuff. And yes that is very correct.

And that wasnt what was used here. But that is getting in to too much thread drift.

[simplynaturalfarm]

I missed this completely - sorry. It is pentobarbital and it is toxic to everything. The reason they require rendering of carcasses if you are not burying - my last vet had a huge rendering truck come and take the carcasses once a week and then they were made into dog food - YUM eh?? Think about all that lovely drug in our dog food . .
I would have more inclination to think your vet (CCCjersey) simply didn't tell you it was toxic. I'll ask Dh but he is taking a long needed nap with our 20 month old - their Sunday afternoon tradition that I think is adorable.
Heather

[simplynaturalfarm]

The AVMA has only approved a few injectable euthanasia combinations and in large animals it includes straight barbituates (which persist in the carcass), sodium pentobarbital WITH anesthetizing agents (still persists in the carcass), Chloral Hydrate (which requires sedation first and has very unasthetically pleasing side effects due to hypoxemia resulting from progressive depression of the respiratory center ie. gasping, muscle spasms etc) and then Potassium Chloride as Wyomama said which requires gas first and is not used in horses. What was it you guys used that does not persist in the ground?
Heather