C- Young calf with serious scours ~ we lost her

[berriesncream]

We brought home a beautiful 2 day old purebred Jersey heifer today. From a good, clean dairy that we have gotten calves from before. We usually don't get them until they're 3 or 4 days old, but since we have a nurse cow, he said he thought it might be better to get her right on the cow.

Anyway, she's tiny. I carried her into the milk parlor at milking time and was trying to show her where Tiny's teats are, when I said to my brother, "Oh! She just peed on me!" But it wasn't pee. It was yellow water. And a lot of it. Since then, I've see her have it at least 4 more times. Oh, and she was not interested in nursing. She did nurse for maybe 30 seconds but that was all. We milked the cow and tried to feed her from a bottle. She did that for maybe 30 seconds and quit.

I've made her a calf jacket and we have her in a nice bed of hay with a heat lamp. Went out again a little while ago and tried to give her a bottle, but she was not interested at all. Wouldn't let me put it in her mouth. I did notice, though, that her nose was very cold and her mouth/chin we cold and slimy. I've never had this in a calf before, but then again, I've never had to bottle feed a calf.

Any advice? I don't have any kind of medications or electrolytes on hand . . . and, of course, this had to happen on Saturday night. I really like and trust my vet . . . . I guess I could try him on Sunday? Sigh. I really don't want to lose her.

Amanda

PS Just so you won't think ill of him for selling me so young a calf . . . I talked to the farmer who sold her to me and he was very concerned about all this. I do think he was genuinely trying to be helpful by selling her to me so young. He has been very supportive of our little homestead project and always provided us with healthy, strong foster calves.

[Janene]

Yes I'd call the vet out. He may need to show you how to tube her and maybe give her an IV if she's dehydrated.
He'll also give you meds for her scours, sounds like Coccidia.

Are you sure she got colostrum? What had the previous owner been feeding her and how much per day?
Janene

[berriesncream]

Thanks, Janene. I have just put in a call to the vet.

He had been feeding her colostrum, half a bottle (1 quart) twice a day. She did not nurse again this morning, but she did drink a bunch of water from the water trough. Poop is still very running, but more solid than the water she had yesterday.

[Becky]

Do you have a bag of fluids and a line? If so, get some fluids in her SQ. you can't do the volume of IV, but you can sure give her a boost.

Personally I'd get some pro-biotics and/or plain yogurt down her little hatch. I'd do some pectin as well. Maybe mix a little molasses in with anything that you give her to help her energy? That might help her to perk up a bit and feel like nursing some.

Boy, I sure do hope she gets better! Nothing worse than sick little ones. Keep us posted. Hope this helps.

Becky

[Jerseylady*Heather*]

When my foster calves first start to scour I give them some plain old pepto bismol. It helps stop them up and keep them hydrated. Always seems to work until we can get them adjusted to the new milk. Hopefully she will be ok. Dont be afraid to tube some water into her too.
GOOD LUCK

[ngrams73]

I haven't had much luck with pepto or kao pectate, With my last foster calf I used liquid Immodium a few times a day until her stool was no longer runny.
Nicole

[berriesncream]

OK, so here's the update. I put a call in to the vet this morning. Got his answering service and they said they'd page him. I told them I had a 3 day old calf with scours. Never got a call back. Went to Mass. When we got home, his truck was in the driveway and he was writing up the bill ($60). He had already exaimed her and given her a bunch of injections that he said were going to help. I was kind of shocked, took the bill, thanked him, and he left. At first, I was pleased and appreciated him coming over and taking care of her (apparently he tried to call while we were at church). But I started looking up the meds and he gave her some pretty heavy stuff, I think. Plus, I would have liked to talk to him to tell him what's been going on. I mean, all he knew was that she had scours - not that she hasn't eaten since yesterday morning. He did not give her any fluids/electrolytes, although he did examine her and DH says that he would have been able to tell if she was severly dehydrated. (She does seem to be drinking out of the water trough.) This is not our regular vet, but a vet who is closer and AI'd our cow recently. Our regular vet enjoys our little cow project and has spent lots of time on the phone (and in person) asking me questions and explaining things to me (on other occassions). I called this guy because he's closer (and less expensive - maybe that should have been a clue!) and I know he does weekend calls. I guess that may have been a mistake. Here are the injections he gave her. What do ya'll think??

Gentocin
Micatrl
Banamine
Ketofen
Dexamethasone
Dipyrone

When I told him she hadn't eaten last night or this morning, he said, "Well, she'll eat after what I've given her."

[milkmaid]

I routinely buy day-old calves, so I wouldn't think badly of the farmer for selling her to you at this age. That's pretty normal. That said, I would have thought he would have noticed she was sick. If a calf doesn't drink that's pretty hard to miss.

As to what the vet gave her, Genoticin and Micatrl (I assume it was handwritten? if you're not sure on the spelling then it's probably Micotil) are both antibiotics. Banamine, Ketofen, Dexamethasone and Dipyrone are all anti-inflammatory drugs. I tend to think that was a bit overkill (2 antibiotics and 4 anti-inflammatory meds?) but to each his own. I usually just use electrolytes, fluids (IV, SQ or oral) and don't usually use antibiotics since many cases of scours are caused by viruses and won't respond to antibiotics anyway. This isn't coccidia in so young a calf - that does have an incubation period - but coccidia won't respond to antibiotics either. So I'd have treated her differently, but there's JMO.

Will she stand? walk? if you pull the skin back on her neck ("tenting") how long does it take to return to normal after you let go?

What supplies do you have on hand? needles, syringes, etc? can you tube a calf?

You can make do with a lot of standard kitchen supplies to rehydrate calves. Have salt and a gallon of distilled water? Rehydration is really the most important for a scouring calf - esp if she's given something that's hard on the kidneys like gentimicin - so you have a better chance of saving her and a quick recovery if you make an effort to get fluids into her.

These lecture notes on calf scours from a class I'm currently in may be of interest to you: ENTERIC DISEASES OF CATTLE That will tell you all you wanted to know and more about causes of calf scours, but I think it does a decent job of explaining treatment - and your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on.

link verified: 2-10-11

[Rhein-O-Ranch]

We use Sustain calf scour boluses at the first sign of scours along with pepto. The boluses will kill most non viral things and coccidia to boot. If you buy any be sure to get a blue bolus gun to put them down with. The sales people where you get the boluses will be able to show you how to use it. It is very simple.
If you have a Jersey or he was feeding Jersey milk that can be the cause. We found that Jersey milk is so rich that it can't be digested by young calves. I had to wait until they were about 2 months old before they tolerated it very well.
There is a product called Bounce back that we also use. It is the Gatorade of the cow world....Plus it's about 50% simple sugars that will help get them going a gain. We get it at any of the farm stores around here.

[Joes Wife]

Is she eating yet? Sure hope she has perked up.

Good info from milkmaid. I printed that out to put with my other cow info.

Jersey milk is too rich to be digested by a jersey calf?

How is your little girl doing??

Teresa

[Rhein-O-Ranch]

Yes the Jersey milk is too rich. My Jersey had a calf in Oct and we had to pull it off and feed it Holstein milk and then let her nurse on our BS cows.
I had a real tough time with repeated scours until I figured out that it was from too much cream.
And if they eat too much it can cause the scours. Though usually that kind of scours will correct itself in 24 hours if they don't continue to get too much. As in we take the calves off of a bottle and put them on one of the nurse cows. Then we have to really watch and pull them off for the first few times until they get used to more milk.

[berriesncream]

Thank you all for your help. She nursed great tonight! Hooray!!! I know we're not out of the woods (are you ever with calves anyway??) but I feel so much better. Also, I think she's been drinking water all day. The vet didn't think she was dehydrated enough for electrolytes (I called him back this afternoon to ask more questions) and her skin didn't tent at all tonight. She latched on to Tiny right away and was mooing for more when we took her off (we only let her nurse for about 5 minutes - but she nursed vigurously that entire time). She was walking around and curious, which she hadn't been at all before. Will see how she is in the morning (and try to catch her pooping - we didn't tonight) to decide if we need to get anything else for her when the co-op opens.

Thanks again for your posts. Milkmaid - those notes were so interesting. Saving them on my computer for future reference. So helpful to know caring and knowledge people are out there.

[amyniowa]

Dexamethasone will increase her appetite, I bet that is why he gave it to her.

[shadowace]

Hey. I had a still born calf a couple of weeks ago and brought home a 2 day old dairy bull calf. We noticed right away that he had the same symptoms as your little fella. The vet came out and did everything and he came back around but still had the runny poop. He was sucking and running around. Not to worry you or nothing but 2 days after my little fella came back to being himself I found him dead in the barn. We sent him away and he had died from scours. The vet said he was responding to the medications but it was to far ahead and we didn't catch it in time. But I wish you all the best with your little one!!!

[shadowace]

Ohhh and another good thing to help is Pedialyte. We use it on most of our calves if they get the runs or seem dehydrated.

[berriesncream]

I had wondered if you can use Pedialyte. Do I still need to get electrolytes in her even if she's nursing well?

[milkmaid]

Personally, I would give electrolytes if she's nursing - perhaps especially if she's nursing. The banamine he gave helps with pain and dexamethasone makes her feel good, but that's only good for about 24 hours, max. So your job is to help that calf get well, and when she feels good enough to nurse you can get fluids and electrolytes into her. I assume any calf that's scouring is dehydrated - it's just so easy for them to become dehydrated when everything's running out the back end as fast as it goes in the front end.

Electroytes and probiotics are also good for stressed calves - which she is, seeing as in the last 3 days she's been born, moved to a new place, and been sick. That's a stressed calf. Pick up some commercial electrolytes that have dextrose, sodium chloride, and sodium bicarbonate written on the label, offer her small feedings throughout the day, and give her probiotics at the same time. Get her very well hydrated, good bacteria in her gut, little bit of energy (dextrose and milk), and she should come around just fine for you.

[Rhein-O-Ranch]

Like I posted earlier Bounce Back is a commercial formula that we get at the farm supply store that has more simple sugar in it than Pedialyte.
Like the post above you can't get too much hydration in a scouring calf. I got one calf in that I would have bet hadn't had a meal in 2 days. She wouldn't suck. We tubed her with Bounce Back and then milk then Bounce Back then milk and then milk again. She finally started nursing and has been going strong ever since.

[djb]

You have to have at least 3 hours between electrolytes & milk feeds otherwise you can make the scours worse as the milk does'nt have time to form a curd in the stomach.Dehydrated calves need something like 1.75 gallons of fluid to rehydrate them.exact figurescan be found on the net & it depends on the breed[holsteins need much more than jerseys]

[berriesncream]

Thank you. I will attempt to get some electolytes in her today.