1/3 acre

[Deleted]

Hello to all from a frequent lurker .

Thought I would ask the opinions of the more experienced on my situation and the best way forward.

My wife and I have long wanted to produce most, if not all of the food we consume. Starting from scratch, we have managed to work our way up to 6 months of eating our own produce (fruits, veggies, wine, preserves, eggs, chicken), essentially all the staples...except beef and dairy.

We have been purchasing milk from a local farmer, but we very much want to have our own milker (and yearly freezer beef).

We have the land for this, but it needs clearing and sowing with grass/clover. This fall we will begin clearing 5 acres of overgrown bottom that used to be pasture 60 years ago. The last owners of this land let it grow wild. It's gonna cost a lot to get the land cleared, 2 ponds built, and then sown...and then the pasture needs to be allowed to grow and develop the root system it needs for at least a year before grazing it.

At this point, we have 1/3 acre of what used to be pasture/hayfield, mainly clover and fescue and orchard grass that we have been keeping mowed down. We can use this right away, as it is already fenced and there is a small 24x20 barn in good shape on it. We were thinking that we could use this area right now, for a milk cow, and possibly a calf... then later, after we get the bottom cleared and ready, use it as a separate area for calving/calf pen.

I know that 1/3 acre isn't near enough for pasture, but our plan is to supplement with hay and feed for our milker and calf. I know it will cost more, and I know that that will be some pretty expensive milk. But we REALLY want to get started on this this year (if possible) rather than wait the 2 years for the larger area to be ready to use.

My question for all of you wonderful folks is if this is a feasible plan...leaving the cost of the extra feed and hay aside, will this plan work?

Many thanks in advance!

[Jenn]

Cows don't only eat grass. Mine regularly eat tree leaves as a supplement to their regular grazing. If you have the fencing, they can use the wooded area too.
Or if you want to clear the land faster, get some goats first. Either brush goats...ie, cheap wethers or dairy goats...and have a milk source right away. Goats can also eat plants that would harm other animals without any ill effect. It's not that they are impervious to poisonings, but they tend to eat only a little of one thing at a time and have a much higher metabolism, so things pass through faster. They are excellent pasture improvers.
You can use electric fencing for cows/goats if you TRAIN them to it.
www.bountifulfarm.com/fencing.html


-Jenn

[Janene]

My 'pasture' area is about 1/2 an acre. I keep the cow in a separate area with her shed, water, minerals, salt block and hay. I let her out on the pasture for a few hours every day.

Last year.....I let her have the pasture all the time. Ate it down to nothing. I learned my lesson. Limit pasture time (oh she isn't happy about that ) and I have grass for her to graze for longer before it gets hot and slows down growing. The grass also actually grows faster because it's not getting ate down so fast.
Janene

PS I have more 'pasture' in the form of the backyard. I have mowed it once....I usually let the cow 'mow' it.

[whistlingwoman]

I'm pretty new at all this, but it sounds like a good plan to me. While I don't advocate rushing into things foolishly, I advise you to act sooner rather than later. For one thing, we get old ("too" old) a lot faster than we think we will. I got my first cow just recently at age 51 and one of my deepest regrets is not doing it sooner. As long as you have enough fenced pasture to start with, and the willingness to work hard, you'll be fine. Once you have your cow, your priorities will kind of set themselves. You'll be able to figure out what needs to be right away and what can wait a bit.
I applaud your desire to grow your own food. I've been working at this for a couple of years now. I don't grow it all, but between the garden, the chickens and now the cow, I've easily cut my grocery bill in half, plus I know that the food is healthful and chemical-free. There's also a wonderful abundance...perhaps even an over-abundance. It's a very secure feeling for anyone who's ever been through hard times and couldn't afford a dozen eggs and a gallon of milk, let alone butter and cream. Good luck to you.
Rebecca

[Deleted]

Thanks to everyone so far for the advice!

We did consider using goats as initial brush cleaners, and also just getting a couple Dexter and letting them clean the place up first, but decided against it. First, it isn't just overgrown bushes and brush, it is also large trees that have been allowed to grow uninhibited for 60 years...what we have now is close to being "woods" rather than just overgrown pasture.

We allowed some selective logging of the area we're going to clear (which paid for badly needed replacement windows for our house), leaving several walnut and oak trees that we felt would be good for midday shade for our future small herd. Everything else growing there now, however big, is just junk...gum trees, lanthus, etc. that just grow up and fall over anyway -so we will need to remove them. It will take a bulldozer about a week to get everything cleared, built, and ready for cultivating/seeding.

Right now, there is some perimeter fencing, but it is haphazard and down in many areas. to put goats/cattle in there now would mean fencing the area to allow browsing/cleaning, then taking the fence down for the bulldozing/pond building/seeding, then putting the fence back up again.

I'm just too old for that ;D

Plan is to allow for some browsing of mast along with pasture, so we will be fencing into the woods about 50 feet on 2 sides to allow for supplemental browsing, leaving most of the honeysuckle, hickory nuts and acorns for the deer and turkeys (we like venison too )

I have used electric fencing in the past, but I plan on just doing 4 pt barbed wire in 4 or 5 strands here - for several reasons. First, since much of it will be in woods and on a hillside, I don't want to have to go out everyday walking the perimeter to check for fallen branches/downed fencing/ground outs. I'll use electric fencing to divide the pasture into managed grazing areas. Second, in the long run, it's just more economical for me to do it this way...there are several other reasons, but those are the main two.

The idea of letting our milker out to graze for a few hours each day is what we had planned on...I just wanted to know if this was a feasible plan.

Doing it this way will allow us to have our family cow(s) closer to the house where we can monitor them more closely during our learning phase, learn on a smaller scale before we go bigger, and allow us to get done what needs to be done on the rest of the place whiteout rushing or cutting corners.

Besides the family milk cow, we are very interested in getting Dexters and crossing them with Wagyu for beef. Anybody here done this?

Again, thanks so much to everyone who has responded so far, and we look forward to anything else anyone has to offer .

[Leimana]

Hi pondr, welcome to KFC! I live in Hawaii and the top soil layer is very thin. We learned the hardway in our orchard that a bulldozer would do more harm than good. It caused all our precious topsoil to wash away. Now we are having to reestablish the beneficial microorganisms so that part of the property will regain its life. I am not sure what your area is like, but treading lightly can be more beneficial sometimes. I think the ideas here for having goats or sheep will help your land. I have noticed to that here wherever cows have been and then taken off for a while in a pasture rotation style, that the pasture or field left behind turns into something beautiful. The cows manure fertilizes and encourages new growth. We also feed our cow grass that is nutritious for them and purposely has its seeds in it. Now we have some areas that are growing that kind of grass without us having to spend money on planting! I am sure whatever you choose to do will be right for you and your family and land and I wish you the very best in obtaining your dream to have family milk cows!

[Deleted]

Hi, Leimana, and thanks for the welcome! I have been concerned about the loss of topsoil after bulldozing, but I have talked with the guy who is going to do it (he has done this here for years), as well as others he has done this type of work for, and they were all pretty pleased with it.

Erosion and runoff after clearing is a concern of mine, but I THINK I have accounted for it. Most of the pasture will be bottom, meaning it is a strip of land in the bottom of 3 connecting hillsides, all of which will have plenty of trees/grass, brush to inhibit a great deal of runoff...there will be some washing, I am sure, but with protection on all three sides and a conscious attempt not to scrape off the topsoil and only remove the trees/roots/brush, I am hoping it will be kept to a minimum.

I really wish that just letting them graze it down and then removing the trees would work, but what is down there now is sparse due to the overabundance of shade, and wouldn't last anytime at all. I'm afraid doing it this way is the only way it can be done in any reasonable length of time...

I have to admit, though...even though we have been studying how to do this for the last two years, it still wrenches at our hearts to think that we may be making a huge mistake and may scar our land for years if this doesn't work out...we just can't see any other way forward...

[Leimana]

it sounds like you have done a lot of research, and your concern for your land and animals sounds genuine! I wish more people thought like you! Ripping out trees vrs. stripping the property bare is a big difference. If you and your b.d. driver can work together at every step it sounds like you will beable to protect your land.

[Deleted]

Yes, we have looked at this and researched it for a couple years now...just now getting to the stage of actually putting plans into action.

What about the 1/3 acre...grazing a jersey for just a few hours a day, supplemental feedings with hay/grain/feed...is this a workable thing? What type of feed? type of hay? how much?

so many questions...

[Janene]

I feed grass hay (24/7--free choice), and she gets treats of alfalfa hay when she is in milk. I don't grain until she is about to freshen, and then she gets grain to help keep her weight up (along with the alfalfa.) Most cows if they are in good condition and dry...don't need grain. All cows are different, just like people. Some are 'high maintenance' and others are not.
I keep a salt block out in the shed, and a pan with loose minerals, so they can have either when the cows feel like it. I try to keep the tank in the shade in the summer, and have one with a heater in it for the winter. (No ice to break this way!)

I suggest you start a search for 'your girl'....its feast or famine. Either there are LOTS to look at and decide over, or far away and few. I'd say right now, there's plenty to choose from, just double check the auction forum!! It took months of looking before a seller actually came to me, offering a cow for sale. She matched the cow to the person, and she couldn't of done a better job!! (That's my Dolly in my avatar!) ;D
Janene

[Annie]

Pondr,
I noticed that there were lots of dairy cows for sale in the SE USA in the winter and early spring. When I go to get more cows, if I happen to do that, that is when I will plan to get them.

Also, wrt the seeds... (this is weird) my first cows I had ate the clover we had, and for the next couple of years, you could see where they had pooped out the seeds because the new clover was patty-shaped.

ETA: and my cows love tree leaves. All my trees are now neatly trimmed at the bottom

[Tricia]

You would be surprised at how much seed is already in that shaded soil just waiting to have some sun, it is a natural seed bank. It works, we depend on it and don't buy seed to seed pastures anymore. I say forget the bulldozer for lots of clearing. I realize you may need it for some parts but it is overdone in most cases.
Last year at a conference a "grazing expert" whose expertise was his PhD not actual farming told of an experiment at a local large world renowned university (who does not have a grazing expert- there prefer confinement animals) Okay I digress. The experiment was reclaiming some old pasture land to graze cows on. They came in with some impressive machinery, bulldozers and the like. They spent 10s of thousands of dollars and lord knows how much in man hours clearing the acreage. then more on seeding it. Within 3 years all that expensive seeding was gone, the species just withered out. What came up was native red clover, white clovers, and assorted grasses. Now years later, the experiment is bust, but that native seeding is still there and thriving. It turned my stomach to hear them talk of the erosion that was allowed.
A couple of years ago we sent our herd to a nearby overgrown farm a cousin was starting up. No cows in 20 years. We did some brush hogging and some chainsaw cutting of smaller trees, then let the cows in. We had the largest carcass weights in all our time doing beef. No bulldozers used, although they really wanted to.
They ate everything, burdock, goldenrod, rose bushes, tree leaves, grass. It is plush now, thanks to our herd. Selective large trees were left for shade and wildlife (don't forget your friends the birds - they eat lots of flies)
Don't discount the power of the solar powered beasts. Cows, or pigs or goats....
Lots less fuel use, less damage to the topsoil, more money in your pocket.
Really for a cow, you may only need an acre, not 10 acres.
BTW barbed wire goes down as often as electric, WE had 6 younguns wandering a 1/2 mile away from the pasture when there was a tree down, they ate the leaves and walked right over 3 strands. More damage is done to the cows udder with barbed wire than smooth electric. AND barbed is a huge PAIN to put up. More fence posts, more work, more cuts.....
We practice manangement intensive grazing, we walk the fence often (26 acres), we are hands on managers of the cows grazing- lots of excercise!

[Alysha]

Talk to your local conservation district. They can be invaluable, sometimes they are housed in the same office as the farm service agency. They can help you to decide what to cut, clear and who and how. They may also have ideas and concerns you may have never heard of. A

[joncowcare]

Hi pondr,
I love reading about folk like you who are starting up, please keep in touch, [do you have a blog anywhere to keep a record of daily life that you can look back on and think, "if only we'd done this etc "].
I applaud your plans and my only offering would be why not try one of the hardier varieties of bovine while you have a lack of fodder ? I'm thinking along the lines of a buffalo [butterfat-rich milk/Mozzarella] as opposed to bison. They are not the wild beasts that many think them to be and will become quite tame with regular contact and . . . will thrive on land that would reduce your average dairy cow to a skeleton.

Well, that's my 'two-penth worth' . . .
Good luck and I wish you every success with your venture !
Jon