E- Feeding cows

[rawmilkertx]

Hi, I'd like to start a discussion about what different people feed their cows.

The whole reason we moved to the country and got a cow was to have access to healthy, raw milk. So, I have been pretty fanatical about NOT feeding any grain to my cows. I try to focus on keeping good grass in the pasture, but we have had a hot, very dry summer, and it has been very difficult (and expensive!)

I've been feeding alfalfa hay (the other hay around here usually has some nasty chemicals sprayed on it), and at milking time, I re-hydrate beet pulp and mix in some minerals/supplements (Diatomaceous Earth, milorganite clay, probiotics, fresh garlic, and humate). I was putting in some kelp meal too, but became concerned when she grew a small lump in her throat -- I thought "thyroid problem" -- even though I don't even know if cows HAVE a thyroid, or where it is if they do... So now, I just offer the kelp free choice along with free-choice Redmond salt. I also sometimes give her organic kitchen scraps (cuke peelings, lettuce trimmings, apple cores, banana peels, and the like). Just last week I found some organically grown coastal/native hay, but she won't eat it (though the horse and llama are really enjoying it).

However, I am concerned about my cow being too skinny, and I'm wondering if I might be doing her some harm by trying to totally avoid grain. Or maybe there is something else I'm missing that would really help her overall condition.

What do you feed your cow, and why?

Now that I know how to post pictures, here's one of her where the light is right for you to see all the bones.


She has had a rather rough life... a great start, but her mom died suddenly when she was 8 months old (and still nursing). Then, at 10 months, she went "looking for love in all the wrong places" and ended up bred by the neighbor bull. She calved this past April, but the calf was still born. Fortunately, I was able to find some foster calves, which she accepted and has been nursing just fine. In retro-spect, I wish I had only gotten one calf, because I think the responsibility of having 2 was rather stressful to her. I was just letting the calves nurse, and not taking any milk for us (we also have a milk goat).

Then, recently, she got bad cuts/sores on 3 of her teats, which weren't healing very well, so I pulled the calves off into another pasture, and milked 2x/day for about a month to allow her to heal. I was getting about 26-28 pounds a day, with a nice creamline.

Now that she's healed, I've been keeping the calves with her during the day, when they all 3 graze, then I lock up the calves at night and milk in the morning.

Thanks for all the great discussion. I love having this group... even though I hate using the computer these days with all the trouble I've been having...
Kathy in TX

[Claire]

My cow gets:

free choice mixed hay (a bit of alfalfa, orchard grass, timothy, and clover right now)

free choice kelp and mixing salt

access to pasture 24/7 from the end of April until some time in November (ours is pretty poor, but improving)
all the water she can drink (I scrub the water bucket out at least once a week in the summer)

anywhere from 5 to 10 lbs of 16% dairy grain a day (I don't see it as a huge evil or a milk quality lowerer, it's necessary for most dairy cows to help them maintain production and body condition)

treats a few times a week (squash, zucchini, apples, carrots, pears, pumpkins, spinach, cabbage, etc.)

and if the grain isn't doing enough to keep her in good condition I feed Calf Manna (I think 3 lbs a day)

[rawmilkertx]

Thanks for the feedback Claire. From the picture, does my cow look too skinny to you?

At the feed store, would I just ask for "dairy grain"? Is there a certain brand that you like? We don't have many dairies around here, and I've never seen the "dairy grain" at the feed store, but I'll bet they can get some in if I know what to ask for.

thanks for your help. Kathy

[Joann]

Your cow looks about right in weight. She will probably accept the organic hay after a few days if you keep offering a little. Just keep observing her condition so you can react quickly in case she starts looking thinner. This can sometimes happen pretty fast.

Some people with a good climate and plenty of improved pasture are able to keep the weight on thier cows and get satisfactory production without added concentrates (grain etc.). This is not possible for me. I feed a modest amount of grain year round.

Most, if not all, of the outspoken advocates of a zero grain diet for dairy cows don't have cows of their own. When you are actually feeding and caring for your own cow you need to balance idealism with the humane necessity of keeping appropriate weight on your cow. We need to bear in mind that a dairy cow is the product of hundreds of years of selection for milk production. Then, beginning in the 1950's the widespread availability of artificial insemination made selection for dairy traits universal. Now any cow with pure dairy breeding is genetically endowed with a tendency to partition her food towards milk production. Breeding for production IS breeding for feed partitioning in favor of production; this has always been true but along with a much more scientific knowledge of rumen function has given us cows that are big producers if adequately fed. Many are big producers even if not highly fed; that is when we need to monitor them for weight loss and usually need to support production with grain.

I have some difficulty in believing that grain is so totally unnatural a feed that the nutrient value of the resulting milk suddenly vanishes. Natural functions tend to occur on a continuum or slow curve. I think it would be hard to make a case for Helen's milk being anything but a fine product.

Regarding kelp, iodine and thyroid:
Cows most definitely do have a thyroid gland.
When a thyroid gland enlarges it is a symptom of insufficient iodine in the diet, not an excess. The thyroid enlarges in an effort to extract more iodine from the diet. The thyroid is a master gland controlling metabolic rate. This is the rate at which energy production occurs. Energy is needed for everything the body does including digestion. A Jersey cow produces more milk relative to her body weight than other cows do. To do this she maintains a higher metabolic rate and thus has a higher iodine requirement than does, for instance, a Holstein. Kelp is a reliable source of iodine and I feed it daily. I also buy the red salt blocks that contains iodine and other minerals.

Any feed store will have or can readily order a premixed grain intended for dairy cows. I buy the 16% feed. Claire (and some others of us) are able to get feed from a feed mill mixed to her specs.

My feed store will order an organic premixed feed but it is half again the price. I have ordered it from time to time but then slide back to the generic brand due to cost.

[Janene]

I think your cow looks pretty good. I have been struggling to keep weight on my Dolly for the past 6 weeks or so because of the heat. She gets a bit of alfalfa at feeding time, hay/pasture (what there is of it anymore!) and water 24/7.
I have upped her grain to 20# per day, she is feeding 2 calves & I milk 1/2-1 gallon each milking.
Your feed mix doesn't sound too bad. If you didn't want to give her lots of grain, Black Oil Sunflower seeds are a good source of protein. They are not cheap, a 50# bag costs me $16.55. You could add some of that to her feed to up the protein content.

Call around & ask local feed stores to see if they have any 16% dairy grain/rations. There are lots of dairies in your area, so I am sure you can find some.
Most of the grain has lots of soy in it. I really don't care for soy, so went to Falls City Mill and had them custom make me 16% feed for Dolly. It still has 80# of soy in it, but in a 1500 pound order, I figured I could live with that. (If I would of left it out, it only would of come out to around 13%).
I asked lots of questions when calling around & generally would look at the ingredient label or have them read the first few ingredients to me over the phone on the bag. Most of the people would say, 'Oh, I don't see soy listed on the label'....thinking they would dupe me into buying their brand of feed. When it says 'Grain By-products' on the label--you can bet money soy is a big part of those grain by-products.
AnnB uses a particular Purina feed, but I couldn't get it in my area. (I forgot the name of it!) I looked it up--its: Purina's B & H Sweet Feed.

I love to feed Alfalfa hay, because it is such a good food for the cows, helping with digestion, providing natural trace minerals and it is higher in protein (generally!) than grass-type hay.
Don't know if I've helped, or been more confusing to you!
Janene
who is having a hard time finding alfalfa cubes with no 'grain by-products' in them!

[rawmilkertx]

Joann and Janene,
Thanks for all the information - that's very helpful. It is very reassuring to get your opinion that Honey doesn't look dangerously thin... thanks!

I think I'm going to try mixing some of the organic hay with alfalfa for a while, at least until the fall rains bring the pasture grasses back some.

And, while I understand the breeding/grain issue, I'd rather stay away from soy since I started having thyroid problems when I was eating soy. We used to have a number of big dairies in this area, but they've all but sold out in the past few years. There are a bunch a few hours East of here in the Tyler area though, so I know there will be feed available - maybe even organic since Organic Valley has some dairies in that area. I'll bet they still have soy though.

I think I might try adding in some of the sprouted sunflower seeds that I sprout for my chickens... Any recommendation on quantity for something like that? I'd guess I'd start with a little and gradually increase.

Joann, how much kelp do you feed each day - or do you just feed free-choice?

thanks again, Kathy

[AnnB (NE)]

I think your cow looks just fine.
That was the hardest thing for me when I first bought Janene's Dolly! I was always convinced that she was too skinny. Then after acquiring a couple more cows, the vet was out one day and asked me to tell him what I thought of the condition of each of the cows. I told him that I thought they needed to gain, they were too skinny. He said that he had never in his life seen a fat Jersey, but that mine were close! So I had to totally readjust my thinking on body condition.
This link will help a lot by teaching you how to do a Body Condition Score



If you can't find a dairy ration, you can use a good beef heifer ration and add Calf Manna and Black Oil Sunflower Seeds (BOSS) to increase the protein and fat.

My girls don't have any pasture right now.
They have nice coastal hay in front of them most of the time, between the 2 of them, they eat 3/4 of a bale a day (60 lb bales).
They have a white salt block and free-choice loose 12/12 mineral (Purina).

I can't find a dairy ration that I'm happy with, so I'm using Purina's B&H (bull & heifer), it's a 12% all natural sweet feed.

Fancy freshened about 7 weeks ago, Pixie about 6 months ago. Fancy is holding her weight just fine and Pixie is gaining.
Fancy weighs around 900 lbs and is giving 3 gallons a day, she gets 9 lbs of B&H. Pixie weighs just over 600 lbs and is giving just over a gallon a day, she gets 6 lbs of B&H.
They get 1 lb Calf Manna and 1 lb of BOSS each.

Alfalfa hay is prohibitively high here, so I use alfalfa cubes.
They split 3 two-quart scoops, soaked in 10 quarts of water with 2 lbs of dry molasses mixed in.

They also get a few kitchen scraps and since we're still working on clearing/manicuring this place, they get lopped off tree branches and the occasional whole bush.



Ann B

link verified: 2.20.11

[Claire]

Honey looks to be in fine condition.

My grain is custom milled with a recipe that the grainary has. If you are lucky you can work with a grainary and get a custom recipe developed. I think someone here (Janene?) figured out a good grain mix with minimal soy.

[hazelsmilker]

Hello all,

The dairy rations that include soy don't agree with my
Hazel (a 2 year old Jersey). She developed ketosis followed by rumen problems when I tried to rely on them for her grain feeding. I think that there were 2 problems with the brand available locally. The pellets are based on stuff that too finally ground and are also ground from grain by-products, not the grain itself. This may not provide enough good carbohydrate for a high-producing cow. (Thus the ketosis.) They also contained soy to bring the protein percent up; I think that this also really wreaked havoc in Hazel's rumen. I've settled on feeding wet cob (rolled whole grain with molasses) along with good alfalfa. I give her kelp with her grain along with dairy minerals. She also has a salt block with a mineral supplement that she works on regularly.

Hope this helps,
Hazel's milker

[Deleted]

Well I certinaly do not know a lot about feeding cows, but following the advice on this board I finaly got weight on Hunny. When we got her 15 months age she was very pathetic looking. Rangy as an Irish lady I know put it.! she was on pasture all summer she got a bit fuller but still bony looking I milked all winter till March 05. I fed her 16%dairy ration, alfalfa cubes/pelits, molasess and hay. The hay was on the poor side and is the reason I used so much else. But I have to say in the spring she was chubby! and has remained so. not bony look!

[wyomama]

Okay, Ann, Joann, consider this a teaching moment - how would you score this cow?

Granted, I'm a neophyte about cattle, but she looks a little too thin to me, especially for this time of year. If she were mine, I'd be feeding her up to prepare for winter. I see 6 ribs, where I wouldn't want to see more than three. I also see clearly defined short ribs, where I would want to see the shelf of the shortribs, but not so much angularity at the ends. In this picture, I can't see her spine or hips or shoulders very well. If one of mine looked like this in late March, I wouldn't be concerned, but I would consider her too thin for the end of August.

Teach us, oh wise ones!

[Claire]

She looks like a high 2, low 3 on a body condition score. That is about where Isabelle is now and I am happy with it. I can't get her much higher, just doesn't seem to be in her genetics to be any heavier.

[Joann]

I thought about the same as Claire. And then I thought that Helen is about the same and I would just as soon she goes into winter a bit fatter. I cut her grain back recently to slow her down a bit. SHe is producing a bit less but that may be due to late summer grass or to the few days of OAD or to - I hope - pregnancy. I will know about that on the 30th. Unlike Isabelle and Kelsey's Iris, Helen will fatten. She is capable of being a meatloaf. She would eat more hay if I gave it to her but then Gwendolyn, Melissa and Sammy would scarf it all and that would be a waste. None of them needs it. They are sleek. All I can do is give her more grain in her stanchion.

[wyomama]

Thanks for finding that link, Claire - it's very clear. I thinking I'm not seeing the complete page on Ann's link. I like the 3 score. I'm glad to know I'm not completely off base as far as what "looks right". Maybe I'm focusing on the wrong things, but Kathy's cow still looks pretty thin to me.

[rawmilkertx]

Thanks for all the great replies!
Lee Anne, my cow looks thin to me too. But, here in this part of Texas, we are a LOOOONG way off from Winter.
Actually, this is probably the low point for us in terms of cow condition. We have had a particularly dry, and as usual, hot summer. So there's very little grass out there that's palatable. Soon, the Autumn rains will start (I'm hoping and praying!!), and then, with all the Winter grasses, the cows will have good eating til late Winter. Then, we usually have a time when the Winter grasses are way past prime, but the summer grasses haven't started up yet.

Thanks for your help. Kathy

[AnnB (NE)]

I see 3 rib clearly, and only parts of the 4th and 5th rib. I see plenty of flesh over the short ribs -- I'd bet if you could touch, you'd feel that there's more flesh there than what the "scalloped" appearance would suggest. While I can see the tendon across the hips, it's not well defined. She has flesh in the brisket, and isn't terribly sunk in the "ribeye" area.

Without seeing the rump, I'd have to say she's 3.25.
The breaking point for above 3.25 and below 3.25 is the thurl.
If the line between the hip and pin forms a curve, she's 3.25 or better. If that line forms a V, she's below 3.25.

From this angle, she looks just like Pixie and Pixie scores 3.25.


Something that might have some bearing here -- cows don't gain weight in the South in the same way that they do in the North. Summer is the hard season down here, not winter. Winter is our GOOD season. Once the temperatures start to cool, the southern cattle will start to gain.

Joann made a comment in another thread about summer calves being more robust than winter calves (not her exact works) -- it's not that way here, winter calves are MUCH more robust than are summer calves.

Ann B