Disaster Preparedness. First set of questions.

[Christine]

As many of you know, I went through a mini disaster when a nasty ice storm felled trees and power lines in my area, causing a six day electrical outage.

During this period, I found that three missing things made life extremely difficult:

Heat.

Running water.

Hot showers.

Although I missed them, I found that I could live pretty well without electric lights, Internet, or TV. My propane stove (which can go a month on a tank of gas) gave me the ability to cook in a normal fashion.

Here is my question: In the case of an extended disaster where utilities go out for a month, how do I provide these three things?

Some random thoughts:

I live in a very small house. Space is at an absolute premium, and there's no room for a wood stove. Would it make sense to put in a flue, and a fireproof area, and store the wood stove down in the basement? When power goes out, I could move furniture, and install the stove to keep warm.

If something nasty happens, it's possible that gasoline or diesel will be unavailable. How then do you run a generator if you choose this solution to provide the three aforementioned things?

Our well is 300 feet deep, and the pump sits at the bottom of the well. There's no way that I can replace the electrical pump with a manual one. There are brooks and ponds near my house. If there's no gasoline though, how do you transport enough water (60 gal a day) to keep the stock hydrated?

On the human needs side, NASA astronauts use 3 gallons of water each day. The average American uses 35 - 50 gallons. Assuming that a person can survive comfortably on 5 gallons per day, I need 150 gallons of water to make it through the month. This could easily be provided by getting 3 - 4 pickle barrels, and rigging them up to a foot pump that moves the water from the basement into the kitchen sink. This will not support the animals though.

Does it make sense to build a disaster shelter along the lines of a small, Tumbleweed house? www.tumbleweedhouses.com? This would provide a small space that could be heated with a tiny, boat furnace, and could provide kitchen, living and sleeping space in an easy to move package. Negatives include cost - a tiny house could cost $20,000 to build if you do the work yourself. This is not in the budget.

I'm not a paranoid type, but I seriously believe that we need to be prepared for a situation where utilities, and civilized resources (grocery stores, Wal Marts, gasoline, propane and medical care) is disrupted for at least a month. Right now, I'm not prepared for this kind of eventuality.

I'd like to hear other member's thoughts and ideas on this topic.

Thanks
Kip

[Jenn]

Cistern for water? I've seen Amish farms with them built into the front porch. The porch never freezes.

You might install a wood stove in the basement with the chimney running on the inside of the house. OR get a small gas stove or wall heater that doesn't require electricity to operate and then get a bigger propane tank.


-Jenn

[Liz]

You hit the nail on the head--heat and water (or in TX in the summer cooling and water).

Other items we learned are necessities: air card for the laptop, so we could communicate and get updates from outside the disaster zone. Candles, lanterns, lamps, weather radio, a stockpile of old towels (you can't count on doing laundry regularly), gas stove and oven, a temperature probe that gives a digital readout (we had one in each fridge/ freezer so we would know the internal temp without having to open the door), a stockpile of feed and hay, a good quality chainsaw, a few canisters of "baby wipes" for spit baths or washing hands, so you don't have to use your water. Good neighbor relationships, extra fencing supplies on hand. That is all I can think of at the moment. When everyone has added their comments and ideas, maybe we can condense it into a list and stickie it in a good spot!

The new KFC family we met yesterday (Sarah and Sean) were telling us about a hand pump that can go over the sleeve of the well, if you have a submersable pump, so that you can pump by hand. I can't explain it any more than that, hopefully they will chime in. Our well has an above ground pump, so we have to provide power (via generator) when power outages occur. During the hurricane we ran the pump to charge the lines a few times a day. This topped off all the animal tanks too. In the winter, I guess you could top off tanks (troughs) and then drain the lines so they don't freeze (and break the ice in the troughs as needed).
We kept a 5 gallon water bottle in the kitchen for cooking, washing, etc---it definitely made us conserve water!

The heating is a challenge; I would venture that some kind of temproary indoor heating is a must--wood stove or propane heater, fireplace, etc. If it was in your basement, that would give you an insulated area to contain the heat wouldn't it? Can you make a flue to properly vent it? Do you have a place to store enough dry wood?

Gas can be stored for awhile, but has its own inherant dangers of course. If you can't refill the gas cans then an alternative fuel is necessary.
Is it Kelly that has an all solar house off grid? Hopefully she will chime in too.

Do the animals have full access to the pond, creek, etc? To water the dogs, it would mean taking them there to drink, the cats can get by with bottled water or melted snow.

Good thread!

[fuzznfluff]

There is a excellent book out now called You Can Survive, by Jere Franklin, it cover just about everything on this topic, from thing you should keep on hand, to............ it covers everything!!! I highly recommend it to any one interested in disaster preparedness.

Another great book is called Country Living, by Carla Emery, it also covers everything and more, it is a very BIG book! from things to keep on hand to delivering a baby and all kinds of wonderful information on cooking, cleaning, animals, etc.

Both of these books are highly informative.

If you have a wood stove it is simple to hook up a few water tanks with a syphening system to heat water.

Also if you have animals, you can bild a simple methane generator and run a range stove on it. You'll only need about 5 gallons of manure/day. There is lots of info on the internet about this.

[Christine]

Thanks all. I'm still doing lots of thinking in this area. My well cannot be used without electricity, so that's still a problem.

Kip

[jaye]

We also require electricity to run our well pump and have a gasoline generator to use in an emergency. We keep at least 10 gallons of gasoline on hand at all times and rotate it out periodically. We could get by for quite awhile if we only ran the generator as needed to run the well pump and our heat circulator pump. The only alternative I can think of would be a solar system with PV cells to store energy, but a water pump could drain those pretty quickly.

[callie]

Put in a propane tank - use it to power a generator as well as a wall mounted heater. It isn't self-sustainable, but you can store a year's worth of propane this way. We did this and added a propane range that can still be lit with a match to use during power outages. Though I think now that the range could be a heater itself. We didn't use the propane except in an emergency for other than the stove.

[Deleted]

maybe it is just the way we live i don't know, but what you folks call disaster prep is what we call life. to try and answer the question re: utilities and long term loss of same, we installed a generator (Genorac) at the side of the house totally self contained, runs off the propane tank that runs our furnace. it will power any 8 circuits in the fuse box we choose, we chose the ones we thought were most needed and that is where they are. the 1 for water heater, 1 for the furnace, and so on. you will have to use your priorities. next get a very large propane tank one that is over sized for your home furnace and put a little extra in each month if you have to until it is where ever it needs to be to make you comfortable. you can have one of these installed (Home Generator) with the correct bells and whistles for starting at about 2,000 and up to the sky's the limit.
next plant a large garden and get a pressure canner and a supply of jars. now the hard part 2 or 3 good military field first aid books, and the first aid kit to back them up cost about 500.00. you can get comprehensive kits if you do a little research i am not going to say any more about this here just do your research and you will learn what we did. next work on your home it is your most valuable asset in any real emergency, harden it against intrusion the small space is actually a benefit. don't forget communications, a good set of hand held radios with good bats. and extra bats. now go hunting, and tend your garden. good luck.

[Laurieks]

We have a generator to run the well if needed, but our fear too is what happens when you can't get gas, we store some but it doesn'e last long, we figure in an extreme situation, we would run the gererator to fill water tanks, grind wheat, flush toilets and anything else and then shut it off, not use it like we do during a storm for lights and such. We have no water, no ponds, lakes or rivers so water is so crucial in our thinking.

I have been wondering if a ham radio(SP?) would be a good idea, my uncle always had one in his basement before he died, he loved the thing.

I like the idea of having a wood stove in case ever needed Chris. I love ours, it is nice to know we don't have to worry about heat.

But I always say I think I was born in the wrong gereration, but I could not imagine life without AC, I HATE the heat, I told my husband we should buy a camping trailer because it would be cheaper for us to sit in when it gets hot then to AC the house, wish I could save up cold air.
Laurie

[rose]

Can you walk the livestock down to the pond or stream to drink? That's how they used to do it.

We boiled water on the (gas) stove for baths when the power was out at our place. If you don't have a tub at all, but only a shower, you might invest in a galvanized tub for this purpose. It can also double as a stock tank or other storage device when not in use for bathing. Or you can learn how to take a "bucket shower" with a bucket and a dipping cup, like the missionaries do back in the bush. You'll get clean but still be missing your shower. If you want to get more "high tech" than the bucket/wastub and dipper, check out backpacking equipment; there are tiny pumps with showerheads sold in some places. Or go down to the hardware store and make your own. You might also want to look into options for solar hot water. You might be able to save money AND have hot water when the power goes out.

If you're concerned about a long-term break-down in "essential services" (like not being able to get more gas for the generator after a couple weeks), I'd suggest looking into something like Tom Brown's Tracking, Nature, and Wilderness Survival School. He'll teach you not just how to survive, but how to live well without any of our modern conveniences. Even if you never have to use that knowledge, you'll certainly feel more secure knowing you could. Tom Brown has also written some excellent field/survival guides.

And please, please don't worry that you "won't fit in" with the folks at one of Tom Brown's classes. The class I attended was perhaps the most diverse group of people I've ever been in: hippies, military people, kids just out of high school, retired people, country folk, city folk, rich folk, poor folk, hikers, housewives...the only thing we all had in common is that we were all passionate about living closer to the land. And it was, perhaps, the most amazing week of my entire life.

--Char

[Christine]

I'm a big fan of having a ham radio license, and a VHF radio that covers local areas. Not only would it allow you to stay in touch with family members, but it will also allow you to get news from other hams in the area. Hams are typically polite, professional, and rarely swear or cause the kinds of trouble seen on CB. Finally, you can get a VHF radio, an antenna and a power supply for less than $300 (less if you shop it right). Living in Mass, my VHF radio can keep me in touch with most of the state, and some areas in the contiguous states.

Contact the ARRL to learn about licensing classes in your area.

www.arrl.org

[clytle]

@ Chris: You look to be correct about electricity being the only way to get the water out of your well due to the amount of work required to lift water that far.

So that leaves you to store(impractical) enough water for you and the animals, or generate enough power to run the pump.

At 300' deep you are looking at around 130psi at the pump to just get the water to the surface, plus what ever pressure your water pressure tank is at. Removing the pressure tank would reduce the power needed and save some fuel used by the generator. Needless to say this is a lot of work, and I seriously recommend diesel. It is easier to store and transport safely, stores longer if stabilized, can be transported by you, and can be substituted with other oils. As far as how large of a generator is needed to run your pump. This is a real problem to figure out. The power required the instant the pump turns on can be many times larger than the amount of power required once it is running. In order to avoid oversizing the generator by a huge amount and wasting a lot of fuel, sadly, means replacing the pump with one of known specs. Generally expensive ones start easily, cheap ones don't.

Your other options are:

Using a pump to deliver water from one of the creeks or ponds to your house. Since you won't be trying to lift water 300' the power requirements will be much more 'friendly' A small gas or diesel pump could be used, or a electric pump running off a generator.

A self powered pump is also an option if the water is moving. www.clemson.edu/irrig/Equip/ram.htm for a bit of forgotten technology.

Both of these last options will be prone to freezing when cold, and both have the potential to get you into trouble with the EPA, DNR, DEP, ect. Please remember that 'no-harm no-foul' is non-applicable when dealing with these agency's non-sense rules. Build it, test it, hide it.

Best of luck.

Cory
KB0WSP(expired tech class)

[Deleted]

We recently had a 2 day power outage and our biggest issue was the phone! Our land line phones are electric and we still do not have a cell phone. We had a terrible blizzard and I was very concerned about my mid-80's parents' welfare. So now I am on the hunt for a non-electricity dependent phone to be able to use during power outages. Wish I had my good old AT&T rotary wall phone!

Ps: We HAVE a wood cookstove, plenty of wood, large stock of food, kerosene lamps and an artesion well just outside the back door.

[callie]

Switch your generator to propane. Propane stores for a long time in a nice big tank.

[amyweinfurtner]

Lots of people mentioning water here: You all have a roof. Your cows probably have their own roof. With regular gutters and some big plastic tanks (or even multiple rain barrels) you can harvest rainwater. It's incredible how fast a tank fills during a downpour. With a really good filter you could even drink it, your animals can drink it like it is. We lived for years with only rainwater for everything besides drinking and cooking with just a 500-gallon plastic tank under the porch.

[hartscottage]

If your creeks have any flow to them, there is a pump that requires no power- I think it is called a RAM pump. My understanding is that it works like a seesaw or those beads on people's desk that once one hits one side, they will bounce back and forth forever. It can supposedly pump water uphill for a decent way. I wish I had a link for you. I am sure there is plenty of info on the internet.... I am about to drop- so tired!!

[rose1317]

Such a good idea, harvesting rainwater from the roof of the house and barn! I've got to try it, carrying buckets of water to the barnlot from the house in icy weather is not my idea of a good time. BTDT, don't want to repeat the experience.
Also didin't know about diesel generators, good tip there.

[riggers]

When my husband died we had not even gotten the well hooked up or septic put into our house yet. The church came in and finished it off but during that period of time I used a 1000 gallon tank of water and just heated up some on the stove and sponge bathed. It actually was not that bad.

And if you have your stove you can always produce some heat from the stove. We made cheap blankets out of fleece on both side and put those solar silvery blankets in between the two sides of fleece. That thing really holds in the heat from your body.

[suzorse]

I have heated a few houses with a wood stove in the basement, in a store I had the stove pipe came up threw the floor and then out the roof, it had a heatalater in the pipe that blew the hot air it collected into the room, and in the house there were grates in the floor above the stove and in 1 wall to bring the heat up, stayed warm in below 0 temps
Suzanne

[haecklers]

There's a kind of wood stove that sits outside of your house and heats the house. You may need a generator to power a blower, tho.

My biggest problem with using a wood stove in my house is that it would make the farthest rooms too cool and that's where there's major plumbing, so the pipes could still freeze in the basement and the one bathroom while the living room, kitchen, and bedrooms are toasty warm.

I'm putting stock tanks by each barn and rain barrels to catch water from the house roof. There is a lot of information online on how to make your own rain barrels - you don't need to spend the $100 they charge at the stores! Mine cost $4 each, plus I'll have to spend a little more for some plumbing parts to make a hose hook-up and valve. Even my little chicken house (4X4 feet) will be able to fill a 5 gallon bucket in a decent rain.