horse problem (PICS ADDED & NEW ?)

[Shawn]

hello all.
I have an 11-12 yo mare that has always been an easy keeper. She has never foundered, although she has spent most of her time in Western KS where the grass isn't as "rich?".

In the last 3-4 weeks I've noticed mostly her front hooves have just shot out in a growth spurt. (And it's been too cold here to get them trimmed) I last had her feet trimmed in July or Aug. I know this sounds like a long time, but for her, always being barefoot, there have been times she's gone a full year and not needed any trimming. She appears to be walking very minimally and I'm not sure if she's suffering from laminitis.

the only other food she gets is about 1/4 to 1/3 quart of sweet feed. And this is about half of what I was giving her last year during the cold weather months. She doesn't get any during spring, summer & fall.

In discussing with my more-horse-inclined friend, we have been suspecting it might be the brome hay I currently have. It is 2006 hay. We have had a drought year, and wonder if the sugars, etc. are so concentrated that it is bothering her. What do you think?

I've read about growing grass being more concentrated in nutrients when the weather is dry and growth slows down. Could this be the same type of deal? and because she's such an easy keeper, it's just too rich for her? My gelding doesn't seem to be having any problem, although if you remember he's the one that needed some extra groceries when I got him this fall.

I've got a call in to the farrier to see if we can get her feet trimmed soon. Also thought about shutting them out of the corral where the brome is and putting a bale of prairie hay out for them only. Maybe the poorer quality hay might help.

If anyone has any thoughts, they'd be much appreciated.
Shawn

[simplynaturalfarm]

I would suggest cutting out the sweet feed right away, and putting in some prairie hay. My Arab foundered several years ago, middle of winter, munching on round bales to his heart's content and never moving. He had complete rotation and required several months of barefoot trims, miles of hand walking, weekly trims and so on to get back into shape which everybody including the vet said would never happen. I was told he would be a pasture ornament and it was with much happiness I was able to ride him in a 16 mile trail ride a year later and have him coming out still raring to go with the most energy left, riding on gravel, barefoot the entire way. . Since moving to the farm he has his times as he is an easy keeper and his hooves grow ridges, neck gets a crest and my Mom learned very well how to watch his condition so as to not let anything happen again (I couldn't bring him down when i got married so she watched him for me for 2 years). Some years I wouldn't feed him hay til January and would force him to go in the field with only scrub brush for a windbreak and scrounge his own feed til he looked like he needed feed, and then would start feeding him. I had really good hay we put up ourselves for the cattle, and he was in with the cows when he was near the barn, so sometimes had to lock him on his own to restrict the feed or give him poorer quality hay so he didn't feel like he was missing out, as I don't like to restrict horses intake of hay. He is 20 years old this year and is very very sensitive to higher quality hay, requiring late cut CRP, prairie grass, ditch hay etc. I moved him from a large 80 acre pasture where he had lots of exercise to a 30x30 pen with the lowest quality grass round bale this winter when I had to get him off the farm, across the border to the US and only had this place to put him in. He has done extremely well on this free choice hay and limited exercise and is in perfect condition with limited extra fat. Of course, he also does not have a barn or such so spends a lot of time eating to keep warm in these frigid North Dakota winters. He does have a small 4x8 roof with a wind break on it to the north and west so can stand under there.
When I had the vet out to castrate one of my Quarter horse yearlings, he noticed the Arab's tendency to cresty neck, fat and hoof problems and how chunky my yearling was (he just looked at grass and got fat!) and suggested I leave them out in the field year round to scrounge til they lost weight, as they had such low requirements and were prone to founder on even normal native grass pasture. He said he leaves his 5 miniature horses and 4 riding horses out in the field without hay til February every year til. It gives them exercise, helps keep them in good condition, gives them something to do, keeps them hardy and is a lot cheaper on the feed bills. He said he has had no health problems since cutting out the stalls/barns and wished he could convince more of his horsey clients to do this in the winter (horses are a favorite species of his)
Anyway, a trim would certainly also be good - I can't imagine my Arab being able to go that long without a trim, but since foundering, I have to keep him trimmed well or else he tends to start limping.

[Shawn]

Thanks Heather for that info. I will make some changes today to hopefully get this turned around quickly. I certainly hope I haven't done her any permanent damage as she's been in the family since a 2 yo and I would feel dreadful about it.
Now to see if I can get some prairie hay delivered.
Shawn

[simplynaturalfarm]

I wouldn't worry about permanant damage at this point - doesn't sound like she's having many problems. I have had my 20 year old since he was 3, so I know what you mean though.
Regards
Heather

[Shawn]

I've added this pic, don't know if it's useful or not. I don't feel any significant heat around her hoof. Maybe a tad warm in the back area. I'm not exactly sure what is normal though. Was trying to use my gelding as example, but then they started acting silly.



Do you have any idea what this is in Moe's eye? I've had him since Oct. never noticed it. Since then it's gotten three times the size.

Thanks for your help.
Shawn

[Liz]

Hi Shawn,
I don't think her feet look that bad. Will she let you rasp/smoothe them? The main thing (imo) to watch is her intake and lameness.
The gelding looks like his lacrimal (tear) duct is inflammed, or infected. Will he let you hydro it (saline rinse bottle with a gentle stream to it), or hold a warm compress on it?
Perhaps Heather or Doc will know of a better remedy!
Best wishes,
Liz

[oscar]

Feet look good. No problem there. But i would have a vet look at that eye. White horses with white pigment ,are prime canidate for cancer eye. I keep a fly mask on my mare all summer to protect her eyes from sun and flies.

[Deleted]

Next time you're out Shawn, take a hoof pick to your mare's hooves and tap the hoof capsule all around from the top and see if she reacts. Also listen for a hollow sound. She should not react, and it should sound solid. In the early stages of laminitis, the hoof capsule will not necissarily be deformed, but there will be pain from inflamation, and she will react to the tapping of the hoof pick. You can also pick them up and tap them on the soles. Take both thumbs, one on top of the other, and press everywhere on her sole that you can get good leverage, looking for soft spots and bruising. Her sole should be hard, not springy and giving.

Does she stand square, or does she stand funny, either rocking back so her front feet are out in front of her (taking weight off her toes) or rocking forward off of her heels? Is it just her front feet that seem to be affected? You could compare front hoof temp to back hoof temp, but this is not always a clear indicator.

Check for a digital pulse - on the back of her fetlock on the bottom side, below the ergot, there are 2 little indentations, and her digital pulse runs through there. If you can find it right away and it is pounding, you have problems. Digital pulse should be barely discernable and hard to find.

I hope thing are okay, and I agree with Heather about the feed - cut out the sweet feed and supply prairie grass. Generally the sugars are stored in the roots during drought, and released in large quantity right after a rain, so if the hay was cut after a long dry period followed by rain, the sugar lavels would be high. You can soak the sugar out of the hay with water, soak it overnight or a few hours during the day, until you can get some different hay.

Good luck,

jouLe

[cindy04]

I'm with oscar on this one. Feet look good, the eye would be my concern. Not realy sure where you are in Kansas, but you can always ask your local vet for a referel to K State if eyes are out of his/her league. I have a friend who took her Belgian there for eye surgery (cancer) and they were awesome.

Cindy

[simplynaturalfarm]

DH said it could be a multitude of things and the best thing you could do would be to take him to a vet sooner rather than later for a check.
Heather

[Shawn]

thanks all.
I'm getting the vet out wed or thurs. My local horse friend was also very concerned when she saw that picture of his eye.
I'm feeling a little overwhelmed this week
Dang, working interferes with my life!
Shawn

[doc]

Shawn,
It could be a tumor. Your vet should have a look at it. Good luck!
Dale

[Shawn]

The vet was just out. He said it appears to be all on the 2nd? eyelid. I think that's the one he said. So he thinks he can cut it all out. Then he'll send it to K-State for analysis. But, it was so cold today and with snow on the ground he wants to wait just until the snow is gone and it's slightly warmer. It's supposed to get better starting tomorrow.
So maybe next week, if work cooperates, I can get this all done.
I'm so relieved. I thought it might be in his eye, which would have been a different story.
Now, the farrier is coming out Tues or Wed to check those hooves.
Shawn

P.S. He also told me that from the looks of Candy's hooves she's foundered several times. She's been in the family since she was a 2yo, I never remember that happening. I'll have to double check with family.