Compost & herbicides - WWYD?

[bunchestoknit]

So we have been trying to find soil for several raised beds. Bagged soil has gotten high and even some of the moderate priced stuff seems wood-chippy (if that makes sense). I didn't seem to have this problem last year when I did a small "sample" garden, but maybe I was lucky/naive.

I'm in KY - horse country. I found a local farm here that sells compost (from horse manure - different sources I believe) and also a blend of compost/top soil and will deliver a truckload for cheaper than we can buy bagged soil. But then I started reading about gardens ruined by cow and horse manure tainted with herbicides. I asked her about it and she said she has had a lot of people come take samples to test and then come back and buy soil. I was reading about doing a bioassay test but it takes a few weeks (you grow beans in the soil) and to do it properly you need LOTS of samples - and who can even say that the samples I take will be the same as what I get.
FWIW, There are a ton of good reviews on their facebook page, 2ish not good reviews. I'm not sure what to think.

BUT then I also heard bagged soils can have this same issue with herbicides - even organic ones?

I'm just not sure what to do, my husband has already built several raised beds, we have blueberry and strawberry plants coming. I wanted to do some other vegetables (especially tomatoes and peppers). 

I feel so discouraged and half wish we had never planned to garden, so much money and time already spent and we could potentially be ruining the whole thing with bad soil. I don't want to till (we don't have a tiller and I have not been as motivated to maintain an in-ground garden in the past) but even if I did you need compost anyway.

Or maybe we should have waited to garden until we could have built up a ton of our own compost (we only have chickens and 2 rabbits, don't have a cow yet - and honestly the idea of sourcing herbicide free hay feeds daunting).

Anyways, WWYD?

[Kelsey]

I would look for compost produced by an organic dairy (not the same as "organic compost"). The cows will be fed on organic unsprayed hay.

[rosalind]

Home made compost is undervalued when considering the cost of keeping a dairy cow... I totally hoard mine now. Black gold!

But, we used to sell it when we lived in Maryland and couldn't apply it to the fields due to our landlords rules.

So, maybe keep looking around? You might find a better option. It likely won't be advertised, you'll have to ask around.

Another thought, if the current source is getting from various places, testing and testimonials are moot - what you get could be different than what was sold before.

Maybe consider trying a few raised beds of this mix, then fill the rest next year? Or, just go for it - worst case scenario you scrape out the beds and start over.

I'd suggest adding mycorrhizal fungi to the beds to help improve plant vigor.

Also consider Mel B.s square foot gardening mix - equal parts peat/coir and vermiculite and compost.

[kim'scows]

Some thoughts:

Once you locate suitable compost, you can stretch it out. For blueberries, you’ll want to mix equal parts peat moss, pine bark chips and compost since they are acid loving. And feed them an organic fertilizer suitable for acid loving crops, like Hollytone.

For crops that like pH neutral soil, you can stretch the compost by mixing it something like 3 parts compost to 4 parts ProMix to 1 part native soil. Big bales of ProMix go a long way and aren’t too expensive if you purchase them in quantity from a growers supply (look for a business that sells to commercial growers rather than buying from a big box store). ProMix is just peat moss that has some vermiculite and lime added to pH balance it, so you can save even more money by just buying big bales of peat moss and some lime.

Call around to local nurseries and organic vegetable farms to ask where they get compost and potting medium. Or try calling your extension agent to get some leads.

A quick google search for “growers supplies Kentucky” landed me here, although they haven’t updated since 2020 so they may be out of business: facebook.com/100067101812463/

However, I see that their most recent post was about coordinating an order for Vermont Compost vermontcompost.com/ . I know organic growers in my area who purchase truck loads from them, they really do deliver all over the country. Maybe if someone near you is already getting a delivery you could save money. vermontcompost.com/

For beds where you will plant annual crops, throw a bunch of “filler” in first—anything you would put in a compost pile like free wood chips, old hay, animal bedding, leaves, branches, crop residues, and a scattering of chicken manure, then top off with your good growing medium. I’ve done this lots of times with good results. The bed will settle over time as the compost breaks down underneath so you’ll add more growing medium next year. That’s why you wouldn’t want to do that for perennials.

Mulch your plantings with free wood chips if you can get them, to further build your soil.

Check out David the Good on YouTube. He’s all about growing food on the cheap using whatever you have available to you, plus he’s pretty funny. He recently had a video about stealing free compost out of the woods, so if you have wooded areas on your property that’s an option too.

[katie k]

Why don't you try a few beds with the compost, just to get you going? If it's bad, then you don't have all your eggs in one basket. It will probably be fine if the majority of reviews are good. Then, build up your other beds as you are able with home compost/materials. I am a big fan of no-till, and you can basically load those frames high with house scraps, hay, manure, leaves, etc. and be planting into them (through the mulch) in time for your fall crops in KY.

Do not despair! Rome wasn't built in a day. Your gardens will be productive and beautiful in time!

[bunchestoknit]

Ok, I ended up not going with the horse manure place for soil. Thanks for your help!

I found another nursery that has OMRI certified compost and top soil blend - and it was cheaper. I realize OMRI isn't even a guarantee, but it was the closest I could get. We will for sure fill in the beds with free "extras" from around the property to take up some volume. I am going to do the bean test before I use it for tomatoes and peppers because I know they are the most sensitive. kim'scows I know that store, I think they are still in business but I have had iffy experiences when I went there in the past, HOWEVER looking at their website did give me some ideas that helped me find the other nursery - so thank you for that!

I have been hesitant to use chipdrop because of horror stories about getting trash or continual drops even after cancelling - I also worry about getting black walnut chips and not knowing it!

[bunchestoknit]

Good grief,

My neighbor has horses and she has a field next to us that she hays - a truck (looked like a hopper car but on a truck) just came up and sprayed a bunch of dusty stuff all over the field. It didn't smell like anything, It was very windy so of course it sprayed all over our part of our property. So was this likely Grazon or some other herbicide? All that work to look for good soil and my yard is being involuntarily sprayed. The ides of March must have been a day late.

We aren't close, she said hi to me the other day the grocery. I could go over and ask her, but I'm almost afraid to know.

[mommasquilts]

There are laws about over spray and drift on to other properties. If it was powered it may have been lime. It may also have been fertilizer. Grazon is a liquid.

[bunchestoknit]

Mar 16, 2023 16:43:59 GMT -5 mommasquilts said:

There are laws about over spray and drift on to other properties. If it was powered it may have been lime. It may also have been fertilizer. Grazon is a liquid.

 I think I knew about those laws but how does anyone actually enforce that. Hopefully it was just lime or fertilizer, that would make me feel better. I feel like I am spending too much time thinking (aka over thinking) about cows and gardens lately, maybe I need to find something else to think about, ha.

[Kelsey]

Mar 16, 2023 16:36:39 GMT -5 bunchestoknit said:

Good grief,

My neighbor has horses and she has a field next to us that she hays - a truck (looked like a hopper car but on a truck) just came up and sprayed a bunch of dusty stuff all over the field. It didn't smell like anything, It was very windy so of course it sprayed all over our part of our property. So was this likely Grazon or some other herbicide? All that work to look for good soil and my yard is being involuntarily sprayed. The ides of March must have been a day late.

We aren't close, she said hi to me the other day the grocery. I could go over and ask her, but I'm almost afraid to know.

If it's late winter, my guess is they're liming the fields.

[rosalind]

Mar 16, 2023 18:20:26 GMT -5 bunchestoknit said:

I think I knew about those laws but how does anyone actually enforce that. Hopefully it was just lime or fertilizer, that would make me feel better. I feel like I am spending too much time thinking (aka over thinking) about cows and gardens lately, maybe I need to find something else to think about, ha.

They don't. It's better to keep a good relationship with your neighbor. Ask them if it's ok if you send a text asking what they're spraying or some method of knowing when they apply something with a drift risk.

It can also help to have bees, then you can tell your neighbor you need to know before they spray so you can keep your bees covered. That's a good way to get people to realize the risks of sprays!

My neighbors used to spray a lot when I moved here and over the years they've had a change of heart, they don't broadly spray anymore!

[bunchestoknit]

Well - now I think it was lime and I feel silly, but better, lol.

rosalind - I would love to have bees.....but I have to pace myself, ha!

We got our topsoil/compost mix delivered and it looks good. Now to see how it holds up to the bean test....