Miscarriage? Labor?? (Graphic pics)

[emmasmommy]

So after all of the chaos from last week, my other pregnant doe started having some serious discharge today.  She isn't really bagged up, and I'm pretty sure she still has her ligaments.  Is this a miscarriage?  Labor?  Please help!  Wondering if I need the baby monitor set up tonight?  

What do you all think??

[Carla]

Have you been able to feel babies move? Usually the first discharge isn't pink/milky. Does the discharge have a foul odor? Her udder can fill and be ready in an extremely short period of time and I can't tell what her ligaments are doing. Is her back end from her hips to her tail really sloped downward?

[emmasmommy]

She's been very vocal today, and I was thrown off by the color of the discharge. I tried feeling the baby today, but didn't feel anything, however she really did drop. She wasn't taken great care of before coming here, so she's a little on the bony side, and my other doe's ligaments were super easy to figure out. My honey goat's ligament area has two very very hard bone things where my other doe's ligaments are, so I'm guessing those are her ligaments?? :/ I hope this isn't another day of bad news. I put her up in the kidding stall tonight just in case

[robynsa]

emmasmommy, is this her first time? My Scrappy goat, who we didn't know was bred, lay down in the pasture one day and a hoof popped out, she had ZERO udder until about an hour after she lambed and the next day she suddenly had a bag. It was the opposite experience to my Boers.

If the discharge doesn't smell foul, I'd leave her to it.

[robynsa]

PS Scrappy's vulva wasn't puffy at all before or after and she'd been grazing all day (they are tethered). A bit swollen after, but not like my Boers. That was a really weird day for me haha! Goat literally lay down and out came a baby!

[emmasmommy]

She's a super old auction goat. Whenever we won her in a raffle at the livestock auction, they had literally sold her baby out from underneath her, so I do know that she's given birth at least one other time.

[emmasmommy]

Hmm, hopefully there will be a baby whenever I check on her in the morning. Between my two does, my bottle baby, and my daughter getting her molars, I'm a nervous wreck! Thanks for the hope robynusa!

[emmasmommy]

Well.. she miscarried. Beautiful little stillborn buckling. Pics to come

[Pinevalleydexter]

Aww, I am sorry:( I hate losing babies.

[christybell]

I'm so sorry!

[emmasmommy]

bahhh she had twins in there. and contractions are slowing down, with a goat head out...

[emmasmommy]

little preemie doeling

[samgorman]

Oh no.
Sorry to hear the news.
Hope mom recovers well.

[robynsa]

Ack... I'm so sorry emmasmommy. If it's any consolation our first couple of years of farming was pretty much written to the same script as yours (((hugs)))

[jerseyrose]

I am sorry about this. Can I ask how long you have had these two goats ? Did you buy them both at auction? I know there have been other goat owners experiencing large losses due to the winter we had. If these were bred does when you bought them then there is really no way to know what they have been exposed to. Do you have any other goats due to kid?

[emmasmommy]

Thanks robynsa, you're the best!

jerseyrose: I live in Central Florida, and we didn't have too bad of a winter, so I'm not sure what's going on. My doe, Twilight, who had the twins last week, we purchased from a farm on December 8, 2013.

The other doe, Honey, we won in a raffle at the livestock auction the day before we bought Twilight (December 7, 2013). She's a special doe to me because we won her on the 5th anniversary of my mother's death from cancer .

We purchased Twilight and a buck, which I sold a few weeks ago because he was driving me nuts, at the same farm.

These are the only two goats that I have, besides my little Nubian nugget that is still in my house, on the bottle . At least I get to snuggle one baby!

This just makes me super nervous because we are picking up our Black Angus girls (who are due in November) tomorrow. I can somewhat tolerate a goat pregnancy loss, but an Angus pregnancy loss will definitely hit us hard (emotionally and in the finance department).

I'm hoping we don't have a Johne's disease issue over here... But my best guess is that Honey aborted due to Twilight butting her. Ever since losing her babies, she's been super territorial, hogs the food, doesn't let Honey around her, etc.

A neighbor suggested that it could be due to us bringing home a new donkey two days ago.. but I had him penned and he hasn't messed with my girls at all. He's been minding his own business.

I'll upload pictures as soon as my daughter wakes up from her nap. Maybe that will allow us all to figure out what happened, so I don't have another repeat of this.

Would you all sell your girls and change up your herd?? Or would you try again with these girls? I don't think I'd breed my Honey goat again, she's definitely over 8 by the looks of her teeth.

Someone, I think elnini?, pointed out the fishtail in my doe, Twilight, saying that signals a copper deficiency. Could this create birthing issues?

Thanks in advance everyone. Hard week for us here, losing 4 kids   Really hope my Honey goat can recover from this and doesn't go through any complications.  I'm worming everyone tonight, and giving Honey a dose of LA200

[elnini]

Not me, eljay maybe ?

I doubt the donkey had anything to do with it, if that's any consolation. There are so many things that can wrong with a pregnancy it really does make a live birth seem like a miracle of life ! We had a rash of stillbirths one year, there were so many maybes and could bes, the balance of probability (just a teeny bit more likely that the most unlikely possible option !) was toxoplasmosis. And high on the vet's list was "sh*t happens" as a differential. So don't beat yourself up, give it another shot. Unless there is a pattern you're not likely to ever know.

[guernseygirl]

I had a girl lose her twins due to being butted, and her discharge looked very similar. I think the abx are a good idea.

It has been a rough year for us too! We kidded out 40 goats last year and only lost one kid (I let him stay with his mother and she left him outside in poor weather.) This year we lost a newly purchased cow and her unborn calf to hardware, a bull calf in the first few hours and about 20 percent of our kids (premature and birth defects, new buck - won't use him again). We had a hard time getting our does to settle this year too - I keep wondering if they know something we don't (like a terrible drought is coming or something).

So sorry you are going through this. I agree with elnini - give it another shot.

[jerseyrose]

Apr 24, 2014 15:15:38 GMT -5 emmasmommy said:

Thanks robynsa, you're the best!

jerseyrose: I live in Central Florida, and we didn't have too bad of a winter, so I'm not sure what's going on. My doe, Twilight, who had the twins last week, we purchased from a farm on December 8, 2013.

The other doe, Honey, we won in a raffle at the livestock auction the day before we bought Twilight (December 7, 2013). She's a special doe to me because we won her on the 5th anniversary of my mother's death from cancer .

We purchased Twilight and a buck, which I sold a few weeks ago because he was driving me nuts, at the same farm.

These are the only two goats that I have, besides my little Nubian nugget that is still in my house, on the bottle . At least I get to snuggle one baby!

This just makes me super nervous because we are picking up our Black Angus girls (who are due in November) tomorrow. I can somewhat tolerate a goat pregnancy loss, but an Angus pregnancy loss will definitely hit us hard (emotionally and in the finance department).

I'm hoping we don't have a Johne's disease issue over here... But my best guess is that Honey aborted due to Twilight butting her. Ever since losing her babies, she's been super territorial, hogs the food, doesn't let Honey around her, etc.

A neighbor suggested that it could be due to us bringing home a new donkey two days ago.. but I had him penned and he hasn't messed with my girls at all. He's been minding his own business.

I'll upload pictures as soon as my daughter wakes up from her nap. Maybe that will allow us all to figure out what happened, so I don't have another repeat of this.

Would you all sell your girls and change up your herd?? Or would you try again with these girls? I don't think I'd breed my Honey goat again, she's definitely over 8 by the looks of her teeth.

Someone, I think elnini?, pointed out the fishtail in my doe, Twilight, saying that signals a copper deficiency. Could this create birthing issues?

Thanks in advance everyone. Hard week for us here, losing 4 kids   Really hope my Honey goat can recover from this and doesn't go through any complications.  I'm worming everyone tonight, and giving Honey a dose of LA200

First off I wouldn't worry about your cattle and the donkey has nothing to do with what happened to your goats ( i don't think so).

Premature births happen for many reasons, as well as birth defects that cause a baby to die a while after birthing and I wouldn't cull a goat for just one incident. I have had at least one baby die ( one year it was 3) every kidding season. It just happens sometimes although with only 2 goats and losing them all it is hard. I also agree that the goat who just miscarried was probably butted by the other goat. Her discharge was wrong from the beginning and you can avoid this next time by separating the 2 does if the one is aggressive to the other.

I would give them both another chance at breeding. I have three does who are 8 years old and another who is 9 now. They all gave me perfect beautiful twins again this year and are doing good at holding their condition. The only difference is the 9 year old didn't give me triplets this year, like she has the last 6 years. I won't hold that against her though...

I had copper deficiency myself this year but it didn't affect my kids. I guess it is possible depending on the severity of the deficiency, but I wouldn't say for certain either way.

I find it hard losing any kid and it takes time to get over the loss and think clearly. Take time and love your little guy and then decide :-)

[emmasmommy]

Thank you all for your loving support! It was definitely a hard two weeks, but I'm going to give these girls another shot in a few months with my neighbor's proven billy. If my guesses are correct, then these two were both bred with my buck, so maybe he was the problem.

Here are some pictures as promised: