Bone Density Tests, Calcium & Older women Question

[Tammy]

Hello Dear KFC Friends!

I have been completely overwhelmed with work here and it doesn't look like there will be any relief for a few weeks. I am missing hanging out on KFC with you all and I feel like I am missing so much! I am reading a few of the posts from my phone while I am doing other things but not able to really respond from my phone as I would like.

My step-mom called me and was asking me a few questions and since I don't have the time to do any intensive research at the moment, I thought maybe some of you all could help me or at least point me in the right direction.

She recently had the bone density test that is commonly given by health care professionals and although her doctor said nothing about her levels being low, her sister was concerned and suggested that she talk to her doctor about getting on the medication prescribed for folks who test low. I remember reading an article and perhaps even posting it here about how the bone density tests were not really all they are cracked up to be (pun not intentional but funny never-the-less ). Also, I remember reading that the meds are really pushed by the Pharmaceutical companies and really not necessary in most cases.

I believe she told me her count was -2.6.

She doesn't believe taking the meds are necessary and would like to treat this naturally. I would like to know if anyone has any links, articles, information or suggestions that I can share with her. She is in her mid 60's. She just recently started consuming raw milk again after many years and I encouraged her to get Nourishing Traditions and look at it which she has done.

Thank you all!

Tammy

[Joelle]

ACK!! Don't let her take those bone-building drugs, like Boniva!! Horrid things, they make the situation worse instead of better, and they can rip your esophagus lining to shreds. Of course, so much money and research has gone into developing those drugs that they won't admit they're bad for you, so everyone thinks they're the best things since sliced bread. *shudders* (My apologies to anyone who takes these meds, I just have very strong opinions against them.)

The bone density tests are not all they're cracked up to be. Seriously. I worked for a doctor's office once that used them, and they used to crack jokes about how skewed the numbers could be. If your step mom is drinking raw milk, I think she's a long step in the right direction already. Regular calcium supplements could be an option, but there can be issues with absorption on those, and I don't know how you feel about flushing vitamins literally down the toilet.

I'll see if I can find some impartial info for you, but going on what personal experience I have, I would advise she take that bone density test with a grain of salt and enjoy the milk.

[ellie]

There was an article recently, in I think the New York Times, linking calcium supplements to an increased risk of heart attacks and stroke. Let me see if I can go find it....

[ellie]

Oh yeah, Jenn had it posted here "In The News" ;D
news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100730/wl_uk_afp/healthdiseaseheartcalcium;_ylt=AlGKzP7D8eLhoEyawl9NQGZH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTNmaWhpbWNhBGFzc2V0A2FmcC8yMDEwMDczMC9oZWFsdGhkaXNlYXNlaGVhcnRjYWxjaXVtBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA2NhbGNpdW1zdXBwbA--

[Jenn]

Bone density test are a bit of a scam. Density doesn't equal strength. For example, a friend's mother always bragged about having really dense bones...in reality, they were dense but extremely soft, crumbly. When she went in for knee replacement, the doctors had a hard time finding bone firm enough to put a screw in.

Bones take themselves apart and rebuild themselves up all the time, it's a continuous process. The bone drugs out there stop the tear down process, but also stop the rebuilding...essentially killing the bones.

Calcium is important for bone health, but it is only a small part of the picture. Picture a brick wall with no mortar...just falls apart. You need Mg, K, P and other minerals as the mortar etc to utilize the calcium. OJ and Raw Milk are excellent for bone health.

-Jenn

[Joelle]

Wow, y'all beat me to the punch while I was out milking.

Ditto to all of the above! ;D

[wren]

Hey Joelle, what about Reclast? Do you know anything about it? My mother is scheduled for her 2nd one at the end of the month. She is 81 years old.

[janine/Ga]

My mom Age74 has osteoporosis and has had difficulty with broken heel ect... :(She was in a cast for 4 mo.They put her on meds and she only took 2 weeks worth and had all kinds of side affects. So now since Feb this year she is on raw milk and doing fine. Raw milk has the enzyme phosphatase that the body needs to store calcium inside bones. Calcium suppliments without magnesium and phosphorus will just cause calcium deposits on the outside of the bones.(arthritis)( Learned this in anatomy class.) The pharm co's and the natural sup. co's make lots of $ on osteoporosis each year. Most of it is a waste. Push the raw milk lots of it. This is why I have a cow... for all our bones and teeth. ;DJMO
Hope she builds bone fast, there are some natural supp. that she could research too. Kelp is great for all trace nutrients. It is the closest match to human blood in nutrient chemistry all in one plant. Great stuff.

Janine

[Lannie]

Ginny, Reclast is the same drug - BAD NEWS. (I think there are 3 or 4 of them now, but I don't have all the names off the top of my head.) In addition to drinking raw milk, weight bearing exercise is the best thing to do for your bones. Walking. Lifting some kind of weights, even if it's a can of peas. If you can get one of those long pieces of surgical rubber, tie a loop in the end and stick a foot through it and use it as resistance to "lift weights" with the arms, then hook it over a doorknob and pull with your foot to strengthen leg bones (if walking isn't an option). Anything to get the muscles moving and the bones bearing some kind of weight or resistance.

Whatever you do, DON'T listen to Sally Field! I don't seriously think she takes that crap, but she IS being paid to say she does. These drugs stop the rebuilding process, like Jenn said, and they also seem to somehow disintegrate your jawbone (the commercials say, "rarely, jaw problems have been reported"). Yeah, your jawbone disintegrating would be a problem all right...

~Lannie

[Joelle]

Ditto, ditto, ditto to all of the above. Drink milk and stay active. It's cheap, effective, and keeps Big Pharma's hands out of your pockets. I know it's hard to convince people that all these trendy pills aren't worth the side effects, but that's just a sign of how good the marketing is for the medicine. Realistically, even with the healthiest of diets you're still gonna fail in some area physically eventually. Magic pills can't change that reality.

Interesting website: www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=21455&name=BONIVA

Admittedly these are not exactly scientific studies, but practical stories from people who've taken these meds. Makes you think.

[Tammy]

Thank you! You all are simply the best! Very helpful information and suggestions!

[Tammy]

I just did a quick search and thank goodness I found this article quickly! ;D I had read it when it first came out.

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121609815&sc=emaf

[Lannie]

I was hoping that article would explain how these drugs work, but it didn't. It STILL implied they increase bone density. They don't. What they do is draw calcium from your blood and deposit it on the OUTSIDE surface of your bones. This makes it appear as if your bones are stronger and thicker, but it's just a coating on the outside. (This is why there's a warning on the commercials that you shouldn't take this if you have low blood calcium.) I won't even go into the caustic nature of the drug causing the warning to sit up or stand for 30 minutes after taking it. At the same time it's depositing blood calcium on the outside of the bones, it stops the INSIDE of the bones from repairing themselves. As old bone cells die, they aren't removed, and no new bone cells are made to replace them. So yes, after a few years, you start getting spontaneous breaks, such as thigh bones breaking from stepping off a curb. It's all a money-making scam for the drug companies.

And if perchance you think your doctor would know better than me, consider the fact that the doctor is being PAID to prescribe drugs. The pharmaceutical companies pay them a dividend every time they write a prescription for one of their drugs. The only thing the doctor knows about a given drug is what the pharma company chooses to tell them about it. Our own little doctor in Faith has a PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) sitting on her desk, and SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT'S IN IT. I had to show her what the side effects were for some toxic drug she was going to prescribe for Rich one time. Her eyes bugged out, she was so shocked at what it said. She didn't prescribe it for him after she read about it. Doesn't that scare you a little?

The only way you can stay healthy is to educate yourself and find out what's helpful (not much) and what's dangerous (most of them) as far as prescription drugs. There's a place and a time for some of them, but I don't think any of them should be taken long term. And don't think that "rare" side effects never happen. They do. Otherwise they wouldn't be in the book. Are you willing to take the chance that you won't be one of the ones who ends up with one (or more) of the "rare" side effects? I'm not. Look at cholesterol drugs. Used to be, cholesterol levels of 300 were normal. Then it was 250, then 200, and now they're talking about getting it down below 70? You can DIE from having a cholesterol level that's too low. But if they set the bar down at 70, that means millions more people are "sick" and in need of their drugs. Go read the side effects of Lipitor or Crestor.

I just read what I wrote and realized I've gone all postal about allopaths again. sigh... I'm not going to delete this, though, because I think it needs to be said. So I'll leave it, whether you like it or not.

~Lannie

[BasleeBackwoodsFarm]

Don't mean to drift off the calcium thread here but I am having ALOT of trouble trying to get off of Lexapro. It is for anxiety/depression. I was on it once before and had no problems but this time if I go more than two days I start to have headaches, dizziness (like I'm gonna pass out), severe tiredness and my blood sugar goes way low. I really don't want to be on this anymore but I can't seem to get off of it. I've tried the weaning down with taking half a pill for a week, then every other day for a week and so on but nothing seems to be working. I don't even have depression. I have anxiety like panic attacks. Has anyone else been on this or had this sort of problem and how did you or didn't you accomplish getting off of it?
If this needs to be moved to a new thread mods., feel free to do so. Didn't mean to hi-jack this one.
Thanks.

[Jenn]

Here's some more "postal" fuel... ;D ;D ;D ;D

raypeat.com/articles/articles/osteoporosis.shtml

raypeat.com/articles/aging/bonedensity.shtml

-Jenn

[Lannie]

Are you ENCOURAGING me??

I haven't looked at the links yet. Do I really want to? I need to shut down now - big thunderstorm going over - but maybe I'll check them later.

~Lannie

[Joelle]

Aug 3, 2010 12:04:42 GMT -5 Lannie said:

Look at cholesterol drugs. Used to be, cholesterol levels of 300 were normal. Then it was 250, then 200, and now they're talking about getting it down below 70? You can DIE from having a cholesterol level that's too low. But if they set the bar down at 70, that means millions more people are "sick" and in need of their drugs. Go read the side effects of Lipitor or Crestor.

I just read what I wrote and realized I've gone all postal about allopaths again. sigh... I'm not going to delete this, though, because I think it needs to be said. So I'll leave it, whether you like it or not.

~Lannie

I realize this thread is getting a bit off topic, but I cannot agree with this more. One of the cardiologists I worked with in NY state started reassessing cholesterol meds when a colleague of his dropped dead of an anuerysm. He'd been working to get his cholesterol below 150. Cholesterol, among other things, helps to repair damage to your arteries - damage which occurs constantly due to the stress of the pressure of carrying your blood. This doctor's aorta literally exploded. Once the cardiologist started researching the statins and the cholesterol craze, he was so convinced that it was all a money-making scheme he took EVERY SINGLE PATIENT of his off cholesterol meds. Every one of them.

The scary part was the flak he got from the pharmaceutical representative once he did this. She was downright offensive, badgering and harassing him about not prescribing any of her meds. He finally shut her up by asking if the company was willing to pay for the funerals of all his patients - she went beet red and stormed out of the office. Thankfully, he was the kind of doc who just laughed it off and took care of his patients his own way, regardless of the drug reps. But this is the kind of pressure that doctors face when they don't toe the line and peddle the drugs.

I have a lot of respect for what traditional medicine can do, but really, the companies that run the health care system are truly in it for the money and nothing else. They can't make money off of healthy people - it pays for them to keep people ignorant and ill. I don't advocate everyone being their own doctor, but by all means, educate yourself on EVERYTHING. A good doctor won't mind you being informed, and in the long run the only one who has to live with the side effects of these drugs is YOU.

OK, now I'm done with my rant. ;D

[tassie]

I so LOVE it when someone other than me rants (and I'm talking eloquent ranting here ) about these things, especially the great cholesterol swindle.

I totally agree with you all, you made my day .

Trina

[Tammy]

Wonderful information and I don't think anyone is "off their rocker"! I happen to agree that the testing for both bone density and cholesterol is skewed and that in many cases the doctors are pushing the meds when and where they are not needed. My step mom knew that when she called me but was hoping I would have some facts or concrete information that I could give her so that she could share it with her sister who felt she might need to go on the meds. She has decided not to pursue taking the medications but rather try to stay on top of this naturally.

I am very happy that you brought up the cholesterol information, Joelle. Doctors told me years ago that I was borderline on the cholesterol. I refuse to even have it tested now. They freaked out when they found out I was drinking so much milk and eating butter and especially that it was raw milk.

Great discussion! Thanks for the information!

[Tammy]

Aug 3, 2010 13:28:31 GMT -5 BasleeBackwoodsFarm said:

Don't mean to drift off the calcium thread here but I am having ALOT of trouble trying to get off of Lexapro. It is for anxiety/depression. I was on it once before and had no problems but this time if I go more than two days I start to have headaches, dizziness (like I'm gonna pass out), severe tiredness and my blood sugar goes way low. I really don't want to be on this anymore but I can't seem to get off of it. I've tried the weaning down with taking half a pill for a week, then every other day for a week and so on but nothing seems to be working. I don't even have depression. I have anxiety like panic attacks. Has anyone else been on this or had this sort of problem and how did you or didn't you accomplish getting off of it?
If this needs to be moved to a new thread mods., feel free to do so. Didn't mean to hi-jack this one.
Thanks.

Kendra,

Not a hi-jack and I don't mind at all. There is a possibility if you started a thread that your question would not be lost in the middle of this thread and you might get more response. I would hate to think that someone who could help might not see your question here.

I just wish that I had some advice to give you. I do hope that you are able to make the adjustments that you are wanting to make. I will be thinking of you.

Tammy