Lame Horse

[Multi-taskingmom]

Hi All,

We have an older gelding (23 years old). He looks and acts much younger than he is. About 3 weeks or so ago he started acting lame in his right front leg.

We had the farrier out, he has his feet done every 7 to 8 weeks anyway, and she said his feet looked great.

We had the vet out and the feeling was that he had sprained his shoulder somehow. And we were to give him bute twice a day. He has since started being stiff in all limbs and lay down a lot, I mean a LOT. Joel (our wonderful vet) was back out and drew blood to test for Lyme, the results came back negative. While he was drawing blood, he mentioned that a lack of Selenium can also cause the symptoms he is having, so gave him a Selenium shot.

On Saturday I called to let Joel know that we were out of Bute and could I give Cherokee some Meloxicam instead (I have this for one of my goats). The answer was yes, and he gave me the dosage. Joel came back out on Sunday (and did not charge us), he drew more blood to check muscle enzymes - still waiting for those results. He also brought us more Bute and some liquid Vit. E. Since starting the Vit. E., Cherokee is not laying down nearly as much, but he still walks like I do when I am trying not to fall down on the ice.

The vet said he walks like a foundered horse, but can find no evidence of that (we have not had him x-rayed yet. His feet are great and he gets only a handful of grain. It's winter here so he is getting mixed grass hay, no grass. He does not like his salt block, so we are looking for a good all round pelleted mineral.

Any ideas, or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Marsha

[elia]

We use Moorman's Gro Strong loose mineral for horses, along with kelp and Redmond salt free choice.

Have you discussed with your vet using MSM as a supplement in case of arthritis? Also there is Devil's claw herbal supplement. My neighbor is using it right now for a mule that has gone lame all around for causes unknown, and she thinks she is seeing a little improvement. It is supposed to be anti-inflammatory.

[Multi-taskingmom]

The vet is coming out today to block (numb) his front feet. He wants to rule his feet in or out. If he walks better with his feet numbed, then we will know it is his feet. If he walks the same, then we will know it is not his feet. He did say that there are other supplements we could try. I will mention the ones you listed to him. I will also check out the minerals you mentioned.

Thank you,
Marsha

[bnb87]

Boron helps arthritis too, if it is that. Hope he feels better soon.

[westxgrl13]

Wondering what you learned, if anything, when the vet came to visit. I cringe, thinking of your horse walking like he's on slick ice! Perfect mental image!

[Multi-taskingmom]

On my cell right now. It's not his feet. Will update more when I get to my laptop.

Marsha

[Multi-taskingmom]

The vet came out and numbed Cherokee's feet. He did not walk significantly better. So the vet ruled out his feet. We are going to continue as we have been, giving him the bute and the vitamin E. We are going to increase the bute to 1.5 twice a day. I have ordered MSM, and will start that as soon as it comes.

His attitude seems better, he's perkier and he is not laying down flat out like he was. But he is still walking gingerly. He is not happy, because we have taken him off all grain, he was only getting a handful as it was. The vet said there are several muscular issues and a lot of them have to do with carbohydrates, thus the taking away the grain.


I asked if there could be a false negative on the Lyme and he said it's possible, but he had never heard of one. I asked about trying antibiotics anyway in case and he said we could, but he is not certain that it would help. It would be about $350 to do a course of antibiotics. It's not the antibiotic that's expensive he said, but the lactated ringers you need to put it in. He suggested that we wait until Monday or Tuesday to decide.

I gotta love this vet, he is not afraid to say that he doesn't know, he is willing to search to find answers, he comes as soon as he can, every time we call. He listens when I have questions, or make suggestions based on what I have read. He has been here 4 times so far and only charged us for 2 visits.

So the thing is we have gone from Cherokee staying right near his barn and laying flat out several times a day for an hour or more at a time, to him going farther into the pasture, not laying down nearly as much, and not flat out. His attitude is better, he is drinking his water better, he had cut his water intake by about half, he is back to normal now. His appetite for hay did wane slightly, but not significantly. But both water and hay intake are back to normal now. I don't know whether to stick the course as we are, since he is improving sloooowwwwly, or try the antibiotics. I don't like using antibiotics if we can help it, but we will and do when necessary.

The thing is this all started with one lame shoulder, and within a few days became stiffness in all limbs, especially his front legs. I know by the way the vet talked, that he felt pretty sure it was Lyme and was surprised when it was not. Before this, he had not had any issues at all.

As I was typing this I thought about steroids? Anybody have any experience with them in horses. Not even sure they would be called for in this case. I will ask the vet when I call him.

Any other suggestions that you all have would be greatly appreciated.

It's hard to watch him walking so gingerly. I want to just be able to run out there and give him a shot of something to make it all better.

Thanks everybody,
Marsha

[elnini]

I'd probably do a course of steroids before I did abx, but have you had a horse cracker look at him ?

Do whatever you have to do to keep your vet, and never send him away without a gift of eggs or cheese or some kind of good food :-)

[Debbie Lincoln]

Chiropractor = "horse cracker"? LOL gotta love it

[Multi-taskingmom]

I just found this article, sounds kind of like Cherokee, except he is no longer laying down like he was.

www.equisearch.com/article/rare-stiff-horse-syndrome-strikes-a-paint-mare-19850

[serendipity]

Hope he's doing better.
I just want to add that Devil's Claw and Yucca work really well for horses, especially those that need long term pain relief as bute is not usually recommended for horses with chronic conditions as long term use can damage the liver.

I ran a boarding and riding stable for years and had a few horses on a product from Absorbine called "Bute-Less". It's a liquid Devils Clay and Yucca that you can add on top of their feed. It really worked well for the older arthritic horses and one with navicular before his owner had him nerved. It also worked well for short term pain relief- muscle soreness from overuse or a bruised sole, etc.

Obviously it wouldn't cure anything, it's just another option for pain relief.
I hope you find the answer for Cherokee soon.

[blaithin]

This group on Facebook deals with a lot of horse issues. Perhaps they would have a few ideas. (Although they are going to recommend Turmeric first and foremost usually. Which may not be a horrible idea.) A Vet works with them as well.

www.facebook.com/groups/415313751866609/

[Multi-taskingmom]

So Cherokee is not improved. He is no worse, but no better. I shared the article that I found with my vet and he read it. He said before he tried any steroids, he would want to be absolutely certain it was not his feet. Since he did not react when he numbed his feet, he is pretty sure that it is not the feet. But he said if there was an issue with the feet and we gave steroids then it would cause major problems.

So the plan is to xray his feet tomorrow and then go from there. If his feet are fine, which we think they are, then we can try steroids.

[jerseyrose]

I hope you and your vet can find the cause of Cherokee's issues.

Best of luck on todays exam.

[Multi-taskingmom]

The vet has come and gone. The equipment he brought was amazing! He was able to do the x-rays and read them right away. Cherokee does indeed have founder (laminitis). This is a huge surprise to all of us. He was only getting a very small amount of grain. It is winter here so no grass to be found, he's not grossly overweight. No other signs other than the tender walking.

The vet is going to get us some Equiox (not sure how it's spelled). It is to take the place of bute, because he had been on bute about as long as he should be. We will continue the MSM and the Vit. E until that is gone. We are going to look at getting him some boots for his front feet. Soft ride I think the vet called them, not sure have to look them up.

Since we can not figure out why he foundered, it is possible that he had foundered and recovered before we got him. I don't know. I suppose we could ask the person we got him from, but would we be likely to get an honest answer since it was not mentioned at the time we bought him? We have had him for about a year an a half.

Will keep everyone posted.

[elnini]

At least now you know what the issue is you can have some direction.

[jerseyrose]

Feb 2, 2017 14:15:29 GMT -5 Multi-taskingmom said:

The vet has come and gone. The equipment he brought was amazing! He was able to do the x-rays and read them right away. Cherokee does indeed have founder (laminitis). This is a huge surprise to all of us. He was only getting a very small amount of grain. It is winter here so no grass to be found, he's not grossly overweight. No other signs other than the tender walking.

The vet is going to get us some Equiox (not sure how it's spelled). It is to take the place of bute, because he had been on bute about as long as he should be. We will continue the MSM and the Vit. E until that is gone. We are going to look at getting him some boots for his front feet. Soft ride I think the vet called them, not sure have to look them up.

Since we can not figure out why he foundered, it is possible that he had foundered and recovered before we got him. I don't know. I suppose we could ask the person we got him from, but would we be likely to get an honest answer since it was not mentioned at the time we bought him? We have had him for about a year an a half.

Will keep everyone posted.

Stress can cause founder as well as food change/ overload or obesity. Sometimes hard ground will do it for some as well. My mare developed laminitis after we moved. A long trailer ride and going from a pasture setting to a smaller dry lot was all it took. It was mild ( thankfully) and she has never had another issue and it has been 6 1/2 years now.

Hope he will respond . Poor guy, it can be hard.

[Multi-taskingmom]

That's the thing. Nothing at all has changed. And this winter is milder than last. We are stumped. Just ordered a pair of EasyCare Easyboots RX.

Glad to hear your mare is doing so well jerseyrose, it gives me hope.

[elsie]

From my understanding of founder and laminitis, laminitis is the inflammation of the laminae, but the term 'founder' is used when the coffin bone has moved out of position...a more dire situation.

The good thing about the whole scary situation is that most foundered feet can be salvaged. Natural (or wild horse) trimming, change in causal situation/diet, a long period time, and rasping, and rasping,and more rasping while regrowing the hoof from top down works in majority of cases.

My Fjord took almost three years from laminitis in four, founder in two, to recover completely. And then there are the inevitable abscesses...But, today she  is a happy healthy smart ass, and I am an 'expert' on natural hoof trimming, laminar wedges, and the growth cycle of the her hoofs. Takes a full year from coronet band to ground and it's better to rasp after it rains. Hoofs are softer.

Took us a while to figure out why the mare was getting laminitis every year the end of December, right after she went totally onto a hay diet. Turns out the grasses that grow in the north are very high in sugar and by cutting our perfect hay in June...early July,just before bloom, we had perfect high sugar hay. So coupling that with less movement because of the deep snow, the critter just stood in the snow and ate high sugar all day at the outside feeder.

Today, we cut hay after seed forms,(in late July here). In winter I scatter hay in gobs all over the pasture in the snow so she has to walk a mile for a lot less hay. I think she hates me...but she's healthy and sound....and I lose a few pounds every winter too.

[jerseyrose]

Feb 3, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 elsie said:

From my understanding of founder and laminitis, laminitis is the inflammation of the laminae, but the term 'founder' is used when the coffin bone has moved out of position...a more dire situation.

The good thing about the whole scary situation is that most foundered feet can be salvaged. Natural (or wild horse) trimming, change in causal situation/diet, a long period time, and rasping, and rasping,and more rasping while regrowing the hoof from top down works in majority of cases.

My Fjord took almost three years from laminitis in four, founder in two, to recover completely. And then there are the inevitable abscesses...But, today she  is a happy healthy smart ass, and I am an 'expert' on natural hoof trimming, laminar wedges, and the growth cycle of the her hoofs. Takes a full year from coronet band to ground and it's better to rasp after it rains. Hoofs are softer.

Took us a while to figure out why the mare was getting laminitis every year the end of December, right after she went totally onto a hay diet. Turns out the grasses that grow in the north are very high in sugar and by cutting our perfect hay in June...early July,just before bloom, we had perfect high sugar hay. So coupling that with less movement because of the deep snow, the critter just stood in the snow and ate high sugar all day at the outside feeder.

Today, we cut hay after seed forms,(in late July here). In winter I scatter hay in gobs all over the pasture in the snow so she has to walk a mile for a lot less hay. I think she hates me...but she's healthy and sound....and I lose a few pounds every winter too.

Even living in MN I did not offer free choice hay. My 2 were fed 2x a day 3x if the temps were below zero. My mare above was on a grass alfalfa hay and did fine, which was scary to have her on with the past bout of laminitis. In the North it is hard to have something that doesn't have alfalfa and that is what we had in our field.