Theory

[maggiesherd]

Good Morning, Karen! It's good to talk to you again. Has your screen name always been lew92, I don't remember that but I sure remember our conversations....Anyways, I hadn't been on the board for quite a while. Life took twists and turns some not good, some good and I didn't frequent the board much at all...., and I always just did with Maggie, what I've always done, EXCEPT this time I worked diligently to get her weight back up after her last freshening. Our feed program was much like yours. I honestly don't know what went wrong. I'm leaning toward mineral imbalance as I haven't been as knowledgeable as I should've been in that area. I dealt with ketosis for her 2nd and 3rd freshening, but sure didn't see milk fever coming. I should've been on the board before this freshening. I understand that there are strong opinions that it's all about feed management. I agree that it is VERY important but I can't help but wonder if it's requires much more precision and honing in on a delicate balance with the PB Jerseys. Could it be that, while it is important, crosses are a little more "forgiving" in their metabolic imbalances? There is a Jersey giving a gallon of milk right now and due to freshen again in July in the Auction barn and she's in my state. AND there is a Dairy a couple of hrs away that said they are SURE they will have one available for me this week. This man was so kind hearted and empathetic to what we went through and really seems to care about his cows. I have to admit that I don't plan to keep a PB Jersey indefinitely. UNLESS I can be convinced that I can manage her and MF can be prevented. There have been some boluses suggested and the man at the dairy mentioned feeding "maternity pellets" two week before calving. I can't find them on the internet so I'm going to need to get that info from him....If I'm not convinced I can manage a PB Jersey long term, my next strategy is to create crosses and have a couple or 3 of smaller Jersey crosses. If we get one from the dairy, I'm going to probably just follow their feed program unless I can swap out SOME of the grain for some beet pulp and BOSS. On the other hand, I looked at their website and they looked like they had some crosses and MAYBE, if they do, one of those will be available. They are among the more innovative dairies. The owners went to New Zealand and studied the MIG (I think that's it, Managed Intensive Grazing) and seem to not be just your run of the mill dairy. I'll know more this week.

I sure hate starting over...So many hindsight lessons learned. Maggie produced TWO great crosses for me and, in the overwhelmedness of life, I got rid of both of them...ugh! (though, as soon as I get my cow in milk, I will be bringing Maggie's grand daughter home which I'm very excited about...she won't ever replace Maggie, but I think it'll be very joyful to have her AND she's a cross with only 1/4 Jersey, 3/4 Dexter...

I'm going to print out your feeding program. We are going to try to grow real pasture this year, not just grass. Maggie was like your cow in that her main stay was hay. We bought the best we could find around here. In the southeast we aren't able to get affordable alfalfa.

It's interesting that you feed through the dry season like you do and cater to her weight appearance....that's what I was doing with Maggie. I thought she looked better than ever at calving but the dairy man that came and gave calcium when she went down, said she had too much fat around her shoulders which probably meant she had fatty liver....again, isn't this a Jersey issue???

So, back to the drawing board for me. It's so not a cut and dry issue with family cow owners....each homestead has it's own set of circumstances and we certainly don't fit the large dairy mold.

I look forward to gleaning more from you, Karen....I'm a grandma now, 5 times over, life is certainly different, but my husband LOVES the farm and while I was ready to walk away when Maggie died....I reckon I'm here to stay....So, I'm back for the next round and hope the school of hard knocks has left me a little more prepared to do it all again.

[lew92]

Sorry, I'm so bad at remembering names, but is it Carol? If not, please forgive me! I used to be MrsKK, but left for awhile and had to create a new persona when I came back, thus the unfamiliar name.

Here's a link to the CMPK boluses I use: www.fleetfarm.com/search/?q=CMPK+bolus&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0&searchSubmit=submit Though I don't put them down her with a balling gun, I grate them with an old box grater and top dress her feed with them. I use about a half a bolus, twice a day, starting about a week before I think she is going to calve...well, when she starts bagging up heavy for the calf. Then I add a full one to her molasses water just after she calves and a full one to each of her meals the following day. I'm not sure if she needs them, but I'm sure it doesn't hurt and I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I was fortunate to be given a bag of broken ones by a relative who used to work for Vets Plus - the factory is in the town we live by.

I do think there is something to be said for hybrid vigor, no matter what you are crossing to. We sold Buttercup's 2 1/2 year old heifer this fall - Etta was 1/2 Angus, 3/8 Jersey, 1/8 Holstein. She's not producing hugely yet, but the dairy she's gone to is willing to wait for her second freshening to evaluate whether she stays on the milk line. And I'm sure they'll look for a family cow situation for her if she doesn't produce enough for their standards. We go to the same church, so I get to hear about her often.

I'm very excited for her heifer, AnnaMarie, who is 1/2 Milking Shorthorn, the rest what she got from Etta. She's a beautiful, definitely dairy looking girl. Not very sweet yet, but she gets to run with her half brother/uncle. She'll tame down once he goes to his forever home.

Okay, enough of old home week!

[AnnB (NE)]

Didn't mean to post and disappear! The grandkids spent the weekend, we had a blizzard, and Grandma had a hard time finding a free minute! I'm also posting from my phone, so please excuse.

Anyway, I have never had a soil test done and really haven't tested forages in several years.

I am a firm believer in 12:12 mineral mixes, some companies call that mix a "High Phos" mix (12% calcium to 12% phosphorus). It gives the 'ideal' balance of 1:1 calcium to phosphorus.
I keep the mineral out year round, except during lush grass growth when "Sweet Mag" is also offered.

I don't actually remove the mineral prior the calving, BUT the cow usually goes into her own pen a week or so before calving with no access to the mineral. So, if she's one that might need prompted to mobilize calcium from her bones, she has that week, maybe 2.

I do not buy chemically fertilized hay, I have known way too many people who have lost their cows and goats to MF when feeding chemically fertilized hay - my vet says it's the result of too much potassium in the hay.

Okay, back to the 12:12 mineral. The 'ideal' calcium to phosphorus ratio is 1:1, and no more than 2:1. The 12:12 (1:1) mineral gives a little leeway in forage choices. Alfalfa tends to be high in calcium, while grass hay tends to be high in phosphorus.
They have free choice grass hay and, depending on weather/time of year, a flake or two of alfalfa.

I "lead feed" (start the milking ration) ~3 weeks before calving, and by calving have her up real close to what expect her to need after calving.

I have been caught by cows calving earlier than expected and no chance to lead feed, those have been our Ketosis cases.

I can't give any credit to the custom dairy mix we've used in the past - currently my milking girl (5-1/2 y/o) is getting half & half Nutrena Texturized Grower/Finisher and Purina Stocker Grower with a handful of BOSS tossed on top.

Oh, and iodized salt blocks, free choice.

Ann B


ETA: at calving they get 12 oz blackstrap molasses mixed into 4 gals of water, as many as they want (blackstrap is a rich source of calcium and magnesium - triple what "regular" molasses has).

[maggiesherd]

Thank you Anne, this is helpful and I will print it out. I'm a grandma too, now, so I certainly understand the getting back to things issue.

I am definitely going to have to ask if our hay is chemically fertilized and if so locate a source of no chemicals grass hay. UGH, there really aren't any dairy thinking hay growers around here....I may be challenged in that area. What SHOULD I ask for?

I always do the molasses. I did lead feed, and come to think of it, this was the first freshening (after her first) with no ketosis, though, that was the original reason I thought she went off of her hay. Which cost me valuable time.... But I tested her, after the fact, and it was negative. I did my cmpk during and after labor and so I thought I covered my basis. She drank two buckets of molasses water.

The 12:12 is something I'm going to study about. I like the idea that it compensates for less than ideal forage, I'm assuming it won't compensate for the chemically fertilized hay though?

Lots to learn for me...I appreciate the help, AnneB.