AntelBio report on Jersey good and not so good, bittersweet!

[susaq]

I tested my Jersey before drying her up.  Wanted to be sure of preg. and general health.  I got some results Monday and some Tuesday.  Had some soul searching, crying, researching, crying, and going to my vet's office to do before I could post.  This was a big learning curve and there are some important things to be learned by me. 

Frist the preg check came back open.  Darn sold the bull before he got the job done.  OK I have a 9 month old bull coming up that is even nicer than the one I sold.  No big deal.

Checked her for mastitis did the complete-16 just to make sure she is healthy before drying off.  I like the idea of being able to check and treat if needed.  Just incase something is brewing.  Came back Undetected N   which I was sure it would.

Then just for the heck of it and because we drink the milk I had her tested for the following:

Johnee's -Negative

BVD- Negative

Neospora- Negative

Leukosis- Positive

Crush me with a feather!   I just knew when I sent in the milk everything would be ok and she would be preg.  She is my baby that I love the most out of my girls.  More like a big old lap dog than a cow.  I did not feel any better until I talked to my vet face to face.  With tears being held back (mine) I picked his brain.  My vet is not a young man but he is a really good cattle vet beeves mostly.  He doesn't usually talk much but he made some people wait until I was feeling better and had the answers given as best he could.

So here is what I learned from him.  He had gone to a conference on this very topic.  He was testing a lot of beeves and coming up with a lot of positives.  He said if you tested(beeves mostly) all the cattle in our state that 50% or more would test positive for Leukemia.  Of that bunch only about 5% would ever show clinical signs.  The biggest thing to watch for, and the reason I am sharing this is tumor(s) on the heart, digestive issues, and tumor(s) pressing against or on the spine causing a cow to go down. 

He said I did not have to cull her.  Just watch for these things and if she were to go down all of a sudden for no reason then we would know it was most likely the leukemia.  In my research I was shocked to discover that between 84-90% of dairy cows teat positive for this.  He had to do some searching to find out if it is in any way harmful to humans in raw milk.  Calves will rarely get it from milk.  He said to use the milk but to be safe pasteurize the milk before consuming.  He looked it up in one of his books and there was nothing about it being passed to humans.  My vet went out of his way to make me feel better.  He is a grizzled, rough around the edges tell it like it is kinda guy.  Love that.

I am still crying over this.  Any way would like to know your ideas about this.  My sweet girl will never go anywhere.  I will keep her hoping she is one of the 95% who never show any symptoms, but being ready if she does.   Sometimes ignorance is bliss!  Thanks for letting me vent on this.  STILL CRYING.

    

[barefootfarmer]

I'm so sorry. It's so hard especially when it's one of your very favorite ones.

Here's what I'm taking away from this-
She might never show any signs of illness. 95% chance she won't.
You can still drink her milk, raw.
When you do get a calf, you can pull the calf and feed it her milk after you treat it.

And while ignorance is bliss....imagine the angst if she did go down and you had absolutely no idea what caused it.

Sending you virtual hugs. It really sucks to get bad news and sometimes you have to pick through it to find the positives. I'm going to go out and hug my special cow right now. <3

[rosalind]

Maybe I am not reading your post right - but aren't you saying she is "dry" AND "open"?

Have you seen any signs from leukosis? If not, and she's your baby, then waiting should be ok. (I suppose, you could send of a BLV test to a different lab, like a second opinion, who knows, false positive??) Just know, Leukosis can pass through the blood, so your cow could potentially give it to another cow, that's a risk you take keeping her around. Keep an eye out for tumors and lymph node abnormalities. From what I've heard, I agree with the other assessments, I don't think leukosis spreads to humans.

I'm proud of you for taking the proactive steps to test your cow!! Good job!!

[susaq]

barefootfarmer thanks for the encouraging words.  My emotional side would rather not know, but the practical side is glad to have info just in case something happens.

rosalnd she is not dry yet thus the milk test.  I was going to dry her up that's why I had her tested.  Yes it is spread thru blood to other cows.  Also the colostrum has a concentrated amount which will give calves a positive test for the antibodies.  My vet said he did not need to test the other girls and I do not have to cull her.  We talked very seriously about the cull issue and my other cows. 

I will handle the issue of her calving much differently when the time comes.  I will take the calf right away and pasteurize the colostrum and milk  to bottle feed her calf.  I will also milk check my other girls as they calf just to know where everyone is.  I asked the vet if he needed to draw blood and do a blood check to make sure it wasn't a false positive.  He said no need to do that.  It is so rampant that lots of cows are positive.  Just watch for the 3 major symptoms which would mean she would have to be put down.  The lumps on the surface affect sale price as the meat would only be good for dog food and would not pay well. 

I guesse the practical side of me is glad that she was tested for these things even though no symptoms were there.  Better to know and be prepaired than not know and be panicked.  It is like barefootfarmer pointed out about the worry if I did not know this.  My vet is now aware of this also which will make it easier for him to help us if we need him.  He deals with this disease on a regular basis.  My thought is that since it does not cost that much for the test and it is a noninvasive milk test why not check.  Then we know what to do and watch for.  Just a thought.    

[rosalind]

Odd thought, something I've never considered... Is pasteurized colostrum effective?

I wonder how they powder colostrum without killing the immunities?

[susaq]

All I know is that pasteurizing the colostrum is recommended but your idea about powdered is a good one. Do they kill off the good antibodies when they powder it? Humm something to think about. Oh also they suspect fly's that bite infected cows can pass it on. So protecting the others is way too late. Good questions and thoughts Rosalind. Thank you!:-)

[aww12]

Batch pasteurization at the appropriate temperature and feeding 4 quarts in the first feeding will give similar antibody levels in the calves.

[susaq]

Thank you aww12. I know they pasteurize goat milk colostrum for CAE prevention. I think that's what it is. We will see if she gets settled when the bull is old enough. He is headed for freezer food anyway. I have people who want called when my bulls are no longer needed. He is one of the fattest (in a good way) one yet.

[Shawn]

Pretty much everything I have or have had in the past is BLV positive. I've learned to live with it. Eventually I figure I'll end up with one that's not.
I do nurse cows, so pulling a calf and pasteurizing, etc. is not practical or going to happen here. They've done some research that suggests calves nursing positive cows can actually be immunized against it. So not all hope is lost. Also, you can get a calf that will die on you at a very young age. I can't remember all the details now, but it's due to being born to a positive dam. I think that's what happened to my very first calf born to the cow I first bought. That heifer was 3 weeks old. That doesn't happen very often, so don't worry about that. That was way back before I knew anything about BLV. That cow did go down on me at age 7.

The second cow I bought also tested positive. She never went down, but I had her butchered at age 10 because we couldn't get rid of a staph infection. That's one thing that happens, you'll fight a weakened immune system because of it. cows don't always breed back as fast, keep condition, etc. It's just like having HIV in that sense. This cow would calve, then not cycle for 4-5 mos. then finally show heats. She did settle easily to AI, but just took her time gaining enough ground to cycle again.
I now have 2nd cow's heifer, Fern, who I initially thought was negative. turns out I tested her too early. They need to be around 9 mos old before you test. I do the DNA test, I send blood in myself.
When Fern's heifer is old enough, I will have her tested and see what she is.

I also have Paprika, an Angus/Milking Shorthorn cross that is positive. I'm hopeful to one day get a negative heifer out of her, too.

FWIW, we have always drank the milk. I've never pasteurized any of it.

[susaq]

Shawn your story gives me a more hopeful outlook on this. This explains why she did not settle with the bull I had. She was with him when her calf was 2 months old, but was only with him for a couple months. I know he was good because last month one of my other girls had a heifer calf from that bull. I will work on trying to do things to keep her immunity up as best that I can. She really is a good girl and a great first calf heifer. It makes sense about the calf getting their immunity from her. I hadn't looked at it that way. I didn't know about the calf mortality. I am more prepared for the worst and will be able to handle it better. It is also encouraging to hear about the ages of your girls.

The vet said there is a lot of it out there so I don't feel as alone as I did when I first got the news. Thank you Shawn for sharing that with me. Any advice on feeding and nutrients that you supplement them with would be appreciated. Makes me feel better about drinking her milk. She has such great tasting milk. You have brightened my day(night)!

Sue 

[Shawn]

A couple other things to keep in mind. Once I grasped the full reality of a weakened immune system and stress, I vowed to never take the girls off the property unless emergency to help keep their stress level down. Looking back, I am sure that's what tipped my 7 year old girl over the edge. I took her to visit a friend's bull and being very attached to me, I think she thought I was abandoning her. Anyway, you shouldn't use someone's bull also because of the risk of spreading the disease. So you really should stick to your own bull or AI.
Also, I will not sell any heifers that test positive. I will instead eat them. I did sell a heifer once, that I had tested, and she was negative. I now know however, that I tested her too young. The owner is on this board and knows the circumstances.
I don't do anything extra special in the supplement department. I feed free choice hay. Alfalfa and grain at chore time. they have loose salt, Redmond salt and kelp. I've recently started putting baking soda out.
It is not the end of the world, although I do understand how it feels that way when you first figure it all out. I was really depressed to find out Paprika was positive. I had her tested almost as an afterthought. I was sure, coming from a Shorthorn dairy (like that really matters) that she would be negative. I had just convinced myself of it.
Anyway. We plug onward.

[susaq]

Shawn thank you for the advice. When you mentioned the weak immune system I figured I would get some natural supplements to help boost hers. I just got her last January for my birthday present from my DH. She was almost 2 and due soon with her first calf. She was not halter broke and would not come unless there was food involved. She soon became my best girl. She took to the halter and station very quickly. She is like your 7 year old was. I told my vet that she was more like a devoted dog than a cow! I will remember to keep her here. I always raise a bull here except for one time before I got her. 4 of us got together and bought a bull to service our cows. I now have a source to buy bottle baby bulls and put them on a cow for my replacement bull. I have always either sold or traded my 18 month old bulls as freezer food. Never as breeding stock. Just because I won't guarantee they will do the job. Your 7 year old sounds like she really loved you.

I will be putting her calf in the freezer. The vet said this is a very common thing and even a lot of the beef cattle he checks are coming back positive. Sure wish they had a vaccine for this.

Like you with Paprika I had Hazel checked for this just because I could. I was only going to check for preg and mastitis. I want to dry her up and wanted to be sure their were no issues that needed fixing. And it did seam like the end of the world.

Yes we "plug onward" and love them even more knowing that they need it. I can't tell you enough how much your advice and you experience with means to me. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and thoughts with me. My best girl will benefit from it! Please give Paprika a hug from me.

[rosalind]

Gee, makes me want to test my cows now!

We've never had an active case, but a cow we sold developed it a few years after we sold her, her two daughters came up negative and as far as I know have not had any problems.

Shawn - Where do you send your testing to? Next time we preg check we could just draw an extra tube of blood. Would be curious to see.

[susaq]

I will be checking all of my girls after calving. My vet said I didn't need to but after reading what Shawn has written I would rather know. It will benefit them in the long run. I am defiantly going to change feeding and add more supplements to boost immune systems in my small herd.

[Debbie Lincoln]

I, too, am now going to get my girls tested. I would rather know, especially since there is always the chance that I could be selling a heifer as a family cow and not for beef.

[susaq]

They still should make good family cows even with this. The research I have been doing shows that there is a much higher % of positive dairy cows compared to beef. 84%+ dairy with BLV, 50%+ beef with BLV. Vet said with the beef of the 50%+ that test positive only around 5% will ever show any clinical symptoms of BLV. Maybe a test at 9mo. like Shawn suggested and full disclosure and educating  a buyer, otherwise how will the herds be replenished at 84% cull rate? Just playing devils advocate here. It is a discussion and topic I would love to see go on here on KFC. Even to get cows tested and see if there is less of it in family cows as apposed to big operations.

I would have bet my life on Hazel testing negative to everything but the preg check. She is a healthy looking cow. I was devastated when I got the results back. My vet did all he could to reassure me that it is common and she may never show any symptoms. He also gave me the major ones to look for for future reference. Maybe some of the cows that are fine one day and dead of a heart attack the next were due to unknown tumor on heart from BLV. At least you won't wonder for the rest of your life wondering what happened. You would have an answer. My heart did not want the +BLV results. My practical side now that I have had time to digest this is glad I tested just because I could.

Just thinking out loud here. I don't know what the right answer is about selling or not selling these BLV cows is. I just know there are a lot of them out there.

[Shawn]

You're welcome. I'm glad to give comfort where I can.

Texas Veterinary Medical Lab in College Station TX takes submissions from anyone.
tvmdl.tamu.edu/

Ask for the PCR DNA test for BLV. There is a submittal form and then instructions on how to mail, etc. Very similar to biotracking.

My first cow was VERY special to me. You can read about it here if you want.

familycow.proboards.com/thread/4797/new-board

[susaq]

Shawn just read your story. That was awesome! It had to be your dad. My hazel is like that. She always gives me one of those soft talking to your calf moo when she sees me. When it was real cold last winter and I would be out with her I would get next to her so she would block the wind. She puts her head by my ankle and wraps her neck around me and tucks me in close. She  always comes when called and will follow me every where. They just seem to nestle in to the heart somehow.

Do you prefer the blood testing over the milk testing? I know you can not test heifers with milk. Just wondering if the blood is more reliable with less false positives?

Sue

[rosalind]

Dec 5, 2014 13:08:39 GMT -5 susaq said:

Maybe a test at 9mo. like Shawn suggested and full disclosure and educating  a buyer, otherwise how will the herds be replenished at 84% cull rate? Just playing devils advocate here. It is a discussion and topic I would love to see go on here on KFC. Even to get cows tested and see if there is less of it in family cows as apposed to big operations.

Absolutely! Knowledge is step one and you can't have that without testing to know for sure (my #1 complaint with human doctors, they never test for anything!!!)

I think it could totally be approached similar to Johnes... Maybe not state-run testing like Brucellosis or even state-monitored testing like Johnes...

But at least voluntary testing and monitoring (aka re-testing yearly or something);
Voluntary culling of all cows showing signs and putting positive cows on the top for potential culls;
Selling animals with disclosure as to their BLV status (Hah, if only people did this for Johnes...lol);
Advising other herds to test;
Always asking before purchasing cattle if they have been tested!

[susaq]

I know in the future I will be asking for the some routine testing, Johnees, BVD, BLV, ect. before I buy. I would be willing to pay the cost of the test. It is quick and easy to test for these things now as a matter of routine. Rosalind I agree that it should fall to the individual to test and not the government. Your plan sounds like a good one. It is one that I have set in motion for my own small group of cows.

I will be doing yearly testing for these things just for my own sake and the health of my girls!