55 gallon drum with legs

[Deleted]

Yeah, that's what Sweet Pea looks like. She is due in 10 days and she is getting bigger and bigger and bigger by the minute...like scary bigger and all in the last 10 days or so.

Anyway, my neighbor who thinks it's funny that I dote on a cow, said something that made me start worrying. She is a Jersey...probably 750 to 800 lbs. 2nd calf. She is bred to a cross bred bull...he is from a Hereford sire and red/white Holstein/mutt dam. He said that the Holstein may produce too big of a calf for her. I know it's too late to change it but it's not too late to prepare for the worst. She is due in 10 days. I thought I made a good choice because I own the bull's dam and she has 50 lb calves...9 so far...and the bull's Hereford sire was a low birth weight bull. When I bumped the calf a few weeks ago I could feel the long bones of the calves leg...and it felt really tiny...but she is really starting to get rotund which has me worried my neighbor is right And poo on me because I could have bred her to a purebred Hereford but didn't because I was hoping for a 3/4 dairy heifer (as if I would be that lucky)

I have been breeding cows on a small scale (herd size hovers at 25 - 30) since 2007...and have never had to pull a calf. And only seen it on a video. Assuming worst case scenario, what should I have on hand? I was just looking at her when I tucked her in her stall....her vulva is loosening up and her udder is coming along a bit...her barrel is huge and round, so not slab sided yet..I think she'll go the full 10 days.

Also what should I have on hand for treatment of MF or Ketosis...I have no experience with that either...

Yeah, I know...I'm just freaking out because she's my little pet...can't help it.

[Ivy Oaks]

OB chains to pull calf if needed, cal/mag oral solution and/or IV kit with IV Cal/Mag, molasses ready for drench if necessary...
Probably won't need it, but a good idea to have on hand just in case.

[dinee]

We had to pull two calves our first year. Talk about steep learning curve.
I have a delivery box sitting ready to go now. To the above list I would add obstetric lube, towels, long and short gloves, disinfectant and a torch.

[eljay]

Your cow will also add or subtract to the size of the calf,,and jerseys are known for being able to give birth to a bus. I'm guessing she will be all right, but I completely understand the worrying.

[grammagrace]

In some cases wear boots with strings. I pulled a hereford heifers calf by taking the strings out of my inselated boots to loop around calf legs. We had nothing ready because we just has not needed it. Glad you can plan get all ready and hope you do not need any of it..

[corrae]

Get some Calcium for SQ from the feed/ranch store. I keep 5 bottles on hand--it's cheap insurance. If you have time, I'd order a set of Bovi Kalc boluses, along with the balling gun that goes with them--my vet works in huge dairies and since she's started using the BoviKalc, she's had little to no MF. Also propylene glycol, and lots of molasses for ketosis. Rule of thumb: when she's calving, you need progress about every 15 to 20 minutes. If there are hooves out, and no progress for 30 mins, get those chains on (please google how to pull a calf for how to attach the chains) and start pulling. Slow and steady pressure, downward. You and she will be fine and do just great!

[Deleted]

Thanks for everyone's advice. I have most of the stuff you all mentioned in my 'baby kit' but just never had to use it. I will be asking some greenhorn questions shortly. And I can feel my blood pressure going up. Just for fun I'm going to go take a picture of her now....it's amazing how huge she is! She's still very pretty though, if I do say so myself. And her pregnancy hormones are making her a little love bunny. Just so excited that I don't even care that I can't leave the farm!

[Deleted]

Well, Sweet Pea is progressing....vulva swelling with a little clear mucous, udder filling up nicely. I went to the farm store to top off my baby kit and now here are the promised 'greenhorn' questions:

CMPK.....everyone says the tube form of this burns their mouth?
Can I just go with a few liters of the liquid stuff and an IV set and administer it SQ?
Do you guys give this prophylactically or wait to see signs of milk fever?

bovi calc
corrae what's a bovi calc bolus? Didn't see them at TSC. I have a balling gun for aspirin...I assume that will work?

Propylene Glycol
@ How is this administered and when? I'm so confused

Chains
Don't own a set...read sometimes it's better to use soft rope...any further input? Watched the video a few times already. My backup plan was to call the vet...but I realized that waiting may make the difference between a live calf and a dead calf.

As is usual with house cows that are also kinda pets, she is over observed. She picked up a little more weight in the last 6 weeks even in the cold. She has several of her own large square bales of special alfalfa that she ignores since the snow melted and instead prefers to nibble anything she can find that is still green. I'm keeping her stalled at night and giving her run of the farm during the day. She is sooo stiff when she gets up. Won't be long now.

I'm as ready as I can be. I can hardly wait. Hope I get a girl. I hate winter births. I'm babbling.

Thanks again for all the help.

[AnnB (NE)]

Personally, I won't use rope for pulling a calf unless there's just no other option. Ropes tighten down, cutting off circulation, and don't release the pressure without assistance.
Properly applied chains do not cut off circulation, and they release pressure when you let up pulling.

All those horror stores of breaking legs and pulling hooves off with improperly applied chains are misleading - ropes will do the same thing, along with causing compression injuries.

Ann B

[Debbie Lincoln]

I prefer the chains, too - and the accompanying handles are easier to grip. I'd try gripping with a dry towel first. But I suspect you won't need them.
I, too, am obsessive about my cow(s). We all understand... :-)

[grammagrace]

Good luck

[corrae]

Sorry about the lateness of my reply. You will find Bovi Kalc here:

www.pbsanimalhealth.com/details/Bovikalc/20-64.html

Don't do what I did, assuming that the bolus could be used with any balling gun. You actually need to purchase (yeah, I know, what a drag...) the balling gun that goes with them.... I tried to be cheap and bought the boluses thinking I could use a normal balling gun....Um, NO WAY. These boluses are huge--but well worth it. And lube them up (I lube up ANY bolus before putting it down--usually I use butter) before putting them down.

Chains are the way to go--don't worry about hurting the calf. You won't. And yes, you would have a dead calf if you waited for a vet to show up to help pull. I am a big baby about lots of stuff, and I have now stepped in and helped many heifers by pulling their calves.... It isn't difficult or scary.... Steady downward pressure. And you will find that birth fluid is one of THE most slippery substances known in the world. Bare hands won't work. Leather gloves help, but you need a couple or three pair. I'm so so so excited for you! You know of course, that everything will be fine, especially since you're ready and prepared. If you want, I'll PM my phone # and you can call for moral support during the Big Event!

[cdmoi]

Freedom Organix, can I proffer something here? Please be patient in letting her try. I have seen a few folks so willing to help that they really got involved before it was truly necessary. Now that you are prepared, give her a chance to do what she does best. Hang back until you have NO DOUBT you need to interfere. In the meantime, I will def pray all goes well. A big cow from the outside doesn't mean a big calf on the inside, and momma could do just fine.

Praying the best for you--
moi

[jerseylovinliz]

I rub the legs dry with a towel & pull with my hands.

One time I had a heifer just flat out give up (she was being the world's biggest baby about L & D). She refused to push & actually clenched up (pulling the calf back in) with each contraction. Anywho, Farmtek randomly mailed me a pair of cotton gloves with rubber doo-dads on them that I didn't know what to do with so I left them in the barn. They worked really well for helping grip that calf's legs! If you can find a pair of those get a pair & stick them in your pile for just in case.

When I was looking so I could show you a pic I noticed they have the same thing but the whole glove is dipped in rubber. That might work better, I don't know, maybe it'd get slippery when wet?

www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod1;ft_livestock_supplies-ft_barn_equipment-ft_farm_cleanup-ft_farm_work_gloves;pgdh4000.html

[Deleted]

cdmoi I am without a doubt a big hover-craft worry-wart when they are giving birth. And I agree both in theory and in practice to let mother nature run her course in the birthing process. So I won't be jumping in and pulling on little legs unless there is a stall out in the progression of birthing. But, I can see your point because the guy that taught me about cows would never let the birth progress naturally. He'd be in there pulling and tugging no matter how normal the process was going. He saw feet and just thought it was time to start pulling. All I could think was Ouch! I explained to him that hormones drive what is happening physically and in most cases babies come when they are supposed to. Fell on deaf ears. Glad he sold his cows.

[Debbie Lincoln]

If I see feet and tip of nose/tongue with no forward progress for more than 15 minutes, I help. And I'm not talking come-a-long-mechanical help...just pulling-with-the-contractions help. You'll be able to tell after a few pulls if she is going to need more sustained, stronger pulls.

[cdmoi]

Dec 1, 2014 14:11:26 GMT -5 @freedomorganix said:

cdmoi I am without a doubt a big hover-craft worry-wart when they are giving birth. And I agree both in theory and in practice to let mother nature run her course in the birthing process. So I won't be jumping in and pulling on little legs unless there is a stall out in the progression of birthing. But, I can see your point because the guy that taught me about cows would never let the birth progress naturally. He'd be in there pulling and tugging no matter how normal the process was going. He saw feet and just thought it was time to start pulling. All I could think was Ouch! I explained to him that hormones drive what is happening physically and in most cases babies come when they are supposed to. Fell on deaf ears. Glad he sold his cows.

My experience exactly.

So...how's it going?
moi

[Shawn]

I second the "grippy" gloves. I have a pair of black ones can't remember the name, but they can get a grip on super slippery calf legs. (and they're very washable LOL)
I've helped with two births. One was a smaller Jersey bred to a Guernsey. He was a little stuck at the head and hips. The other was an experienced Jersey bred to a Normande. Both times, the cows seemed to turn to me like "Aren't you going to help me out?" Kinda weird, but I knew when to step in.
I assisted with contractions, being patient and all was well.
You'll be fine.

[robynsa]

I think they are called pimple gloves - well they are here, anyway.

I've assisted twice. First was a gentle tug in time with contractions when we had two feet and a nose and no progress for 15 minutes (calf was out to just in front of his forehead but stopped there and cow was really huffing and puffing and getting very tired - eyes really bulging and extremely heavy breathing). I literally wrapped my hands around his knees - squashing both legs together and then wrapping both hands around - and it took two tugs and out he came. He was big.

Second time was the c-section heifer. Her calf was the biggest of the 3 born around the same time, same sire, and she's a very narrow girl. With her, her water bag was showing for about half an hour and nothing was happening. When I first went in for a feel she was bellowing and her tongue was sticking out. I tried climbing rope - waaaaay too slippery, and after 5 minutes of not being able to get the calf to budge even an inch I called the vet to come out. He tried again with the help of another two strong guys and we still couldn't manage even with him turning the calf around. He used thin ski rope and it was very hard to get it loose afterwards. After 15 minutes of trying we made the decision to c-section. She is really very, very narrow though.

Just keep an eye on her. I think she'll probably do what Blom did - lay down, push twice and rocket that baby out! But you will know. If she is really labouring hard and her eyes are bugging out of her head and nothing is visually progressing at ALL after half an hour or so, then it's likely time to intervene. Minutes always feel like hours for me during calving, and I have to sit on my hands an awful lot to stop myself from being "helpful". You'll know.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2014 14:24:23 GMT -5 Debbie Lincoln said:

If I see feet and tip of nose/tongue with no forward progress for more than 15 minutes, I help. And I'm not talking come-a-long-mechanical help...just pulling-with-the-contractions help. You'll be able to tell after a few pulls if she is going to need more sustained, stronger pulls.

I guess I have to take back what I said about never having helped. I've done exactly as you described...gave a little tug along with a contraction. I helped with the first birth on my farm but kinda forgot about it until now. I bought my first cow at auction. She was bred 5 months. I was so excited when she had a textbook delivery. I wasn't in the pen with her because my boyfriend at the time convinced me they were all dangerous and mean when they calved...his brother, mentioned above, raised Angus...the scary kind. It's about 2:00 in the morning and I'm excited beyond belief. I just wanted to look at her and the baby!!! As I'm peering at her over the gate, she gives me this really odd look and then sits down like a dog and falls over. I'm like 'oh crap'. So the boyfriend is in the house getting some stuff we needed, and I'm like 'she's not acting any different than before, I'm going in the pen with her.' I go in the pen, and look and there they are: another set of teeny feet poking out. My poor cow was so tired, and she didn't have any push at all left in her. So I just waited for contractions and gave a few well timed pulls. Two heifers BTW, Busy and Bee, I still have both of them. They are lovely. One horned and one polled. One in your pocket and one aloof. Both grew up to be good cows. The point of my story is I didn't know to be scared and worried then.