Dangerous cow.

[loriwy]

I bought Pooka because she's small and I was gambling she's have a heifer. Not because of her personality, she's suspicious,always on edge and not friendly. Well my gamble paid Mothers day and she gave me a heifer. But now she's turned dangerous. She is small but quick as a cat and has no problems with attacking.
So here's my questions. The mother has a pretty large bag for not being dairy, would it cause her problems if I just pull the calf off of her? Because this will only be a one time only proposition. I've been given 2 sides to this. One stated wait until weaning because replacer is so expensive and since she'll stay small she'll be easy to train. I'm worried that she'll pick up her Moms skittish attitude if I do that. Plus I'd like to disbud her at an early age where it's not so "bloody" and traumatic.
The second opinion was to pull her at 1 week and bottle feed her so she bonds with humans and it will limit her moms influence. I lean toward this option because I want her as gentle as possible. But I also wonder if mom will dry off on her own.
Milk sharing isn't an option because it's going to take massive restraint to get the calf away from mom. Than mom is going to be sold, she's more of a range cow than a small farm cow. She flat took my husband down with no warning at all. Which is pretty good for a 35" cow. I can't take the chance she'll get out with her calf and attack my Grandkids or the neighbors.
So what do you think I should do?

[AnnB (NE)]

In your situation I'd pull and bottle the calf, Mama WILL teach her bad behaviors. Calf may still have Mama's skittish personality, but she'll be accustomed to people and handling and shouldn't be nearly as hard to deal with.
If you're lucky she'll turn into a lovebug.

Ann B

[haecklers]

She's bigger than my cows and we give them a lot of respect! Of course mine are solid walls of meat and weigh a lot! We've got one we don't trust and I'm pretty sure she's bred - I'm totally on the fence about whether to let her have a calf (momma cow is ADORABLE!) or just take her to the butcher with the calf still inside her (people say pregnant cows have better meat - !) If she had the calf, we'd definitely pull it and bottle feed it as soon as the colostrum is gone!

[deff]

Docility is a highly heritable trait. I have raised bottle calves from nervous cows and turned them into pocket pets -- just to have all the drama reappear when their offspring calved. If your goal is simply to have a small pet cow, then bottle feeding the calf is your best bet. If this is to be the foundation stock of a herd, I would advise selling the pair and starting over.

[simplynaturalfarm]

Whether raised by their dams or not, my flighty babies from those dams are usually still more flighty than calves from my laid back cows.

I pulled one nice heifer off her dam at birth and bottle fed with another calf. The other calf was a sweet unrelated steer, this girl after 30 days would still run away when she saw me (I was her only source of feed!) and she'd run through the fence to get away from me. She was very emotional and while easy to hand feed and the most curious cow we've ever had, she was almost impossible to get into the stanchion (this with halter training), and she thrashed like a mad cow if you touched her. Her bull calf took on the personality of his sire and is much less upset about life, but we butchered the dam - I butchered the grandma for flightiness and absolute inability to work with her (I milked for 3 months and never let her raise a calf and she still had to be chased into the barn every day), but I hoped her heifer would be less flighty. Not so, so we butchered her also.

I have even pulled calves off flighty dams and let my most quiet cows raise them and they still have attitude and are flighty.

[moocow]

I think taking calf away is a good idea. I know people who have good milk cows who get aggressive with calf. Once they take calf away the cow is wonderful again.

[loriwy]

This cow was never handled, she was just to throw the next generation of mini buckers. But she has a high percentage of zebu in her. The aggression didn't show up until right before birth. I had her taking cubes for my hand a couple times. But it really changed after birth. So I will cut her some slack because she's always been just a range cow.
The baby so far has only been curious about us. Unfortunately the more curious the calf the more the cow gets nervous. Will the cow dry off with no problems?

[suzorse]

the cow has raging hormones , I would leave them alone for a couple weeks and see if
the cow calms back down, as range /beef cows will get protective of their calves and this may be what is going on
Suzanne

[loriwy]

I understand that, but I don't want a range cow out of the baby. I want a pet/milk cow. I can't even get pics or video of the calf outside. As soon as I step outside she runs it back into the shed.

[eon69nc]

I too would work with the cow and give a few treats. You are considered a threat to the calf right now. If you are able to just stand there and chill, i would imagine she would come out eventually. Those hormones are a beast in some cattle.

[suzorse]

you can turn a wild calf into a pet after weaning, as it is what I do, she dose not want you messing with her calf right now so is being a protective mother ,and that is being a good mother in her eyes, wait for 2 weeks then see if you can get them up,in a pen, then let the cow out for the day and keep the calf back and work with it as the cow will come back in to the calf , Suzanne

[simplynaturalfarm]

Zebu are not a normally placid critters, so I think you might have to use your own discretion. ON a cow that is willing to take my husband out, without dinosaur proof fencing, I would give a week to calm down (so til next Sunday) and I would have zero hesitation pulling the calf and shipping the cow. I could care lessa bout the udder at that point than about I, small kids and any other human!

[loriwy]

All that I would need to do is step into the corral and she would attack at this point. Granted it's not a pasture, but I'm actually nervous about turning her out with the other animals.
I believe I'll give her another week and pull the baby if she hasn't calmed down. I was only told about her attitude after I'd already paid for and picked her up. But right now the baby is just curious about us. So it will be a wait and see.
One other option is taking her horns off and a little cowboy halter training. I really don't think a passive approach will work when I'm the one running.
Thank you all for your comments.

[eon69nc]

Just my opinion but passive is the best thing, I had a BrahmanX cow who was due 7 months after I got her. I could brush her and walk around her no issue, but once the calf hit the ground she was very protective. Would not even approach. I would just stand outside the fencing for maybe 30 minutes or whenever I just needed a break. Kept calm and spoke in soft voice took over a month but she did come around. But again mine did not have the horns and those are her main weapons so you have to do what you feel is right/safe. My motto is she is doing what is natural right now protecting her calf in the same manner we try to protect our own child. She has to get her comfort level in check and that will not happen overnight. Just be safe and stay calm when you are around her.

[milkmaid]

Many breeds - excluding dairy breeds - are protective at some level of their calves. How long ago did she calve? You're looking at maternal instinct, not behavioral aggression. Depending on the calf's sire, the calf may or may not act the same way when she calves - it doesn't matter whether the calf is raised by this cow or on a bottle.

[wren]

She is only 3 days post calving. She still has raging hormones. Even very tame, laid back seasoned milk cows can act like that for a few days to 2 weeks after calving. I'd give her at least 2 weeks to get the hormones out of her system, then reevaluate.

[robynsa]

^^^ This.

[robynsa]

My Carol, who is a 10yo Dexter, will most certainly launch at all and sundry when she has a new babe. She charged us the day we went to look at her with a 2mo heifer calf at foot.

The same cow is my "demo model" for when visitors want a close-up view of a Dexter. I drag her all over the show, can touch her all over, lie over her back, etc. In fact yesterday I used her as my shield to spray a wound on a flighty heifer. Down on my hands and knees next to Carol so I could reach under her and spray Frankie's leg! (success! Granted I did realise afterwards that it could have gone SO badly). And I also used her for show and tell yesterday to show my neighbour how an udder isn't completely full if there are still wrinkles, and walked up to Carol in the field and grabbed a handful of wrinkles as I was talking... she just swished her tail and looked back at me.

But a young babe (nevermind a newborn) unleashes the momma range cow in her and I'm willing to afford her that

Your cow was eating out your hand, and that's a lot more than most of my cows will do on a good day, so I'd give her the benefit of the doubt for now if she were mine.

[nina]

You are thinking exactly what a predator does, looking at the calf and thinking about separating it from its mother. Try only focusing on the mother when you feed her a couple of times and she will relax. Prey animals like horses and cows pick up on very slight changes in our behavior and are especially razor sharp when it comes to their newborns. If your eyes have an intense staring quality focused on baby look out. I try to only stare at newborns when mom has her head in a feed bucket. I've bought a few fresh weaned heifers with varying degrees of calmness. One recent little heifer was extremely skittish and now she is the calmest. Calmer than another heifer that started out calmer but pretty much stayed the same.
I found a trick that works for me, and that is to feed all your calves together with the exception of the skittish calf and maneuver yourself into a guarding position between her and the toughies protecting her while she eats. Very rapidly they catch on you're protecting them and presto you have a dog tamed calf in no time. I also try to mimic how a mother cow might lick them with the same pressure and movement while they are eating. I don't think bottle feeding will make things easier in any way. If nature is stronger than nurture you'll wind up with an aggressive and fearless cow regardless. I would let the cow do all the work, wean early and sell the cow. The horn buds I'd do right away and send her back to mom. Oh, I also had a bottle calf that was very tame and aggressive eater and the boldest calf that I was bottle feeding wind up being the bottom of the herd so I wouldn't put a lot into those first few weeks in judging temperament and don't discount the bull's contribution to personality either. If you don't know your cow's whole history, her skittishness may be a learned behavior from rough treatment and she might slowing change for the better.

[simplynaturalfarm]

how is it going?

You guys are much more tolerant than I - any cow, beef, dairy or otherwise goes after me because I dared to look at her calf is going to get in big trouble and on probation for 1-2 weeks - I give them 3 days of nonsense after calving, and a week to calm down. Cows are not dumb and should recognize after a week that we are not going to kill their babies - never mind one with a 2 month old calf! Mine might bellow and pace because their babies are gone at night, but they will not take me out because I have their calf. I've never even met a range cow that would go after somebody because we went near a 2 month old.
There is no excuse for that on my property where there are visitors, kids and electric fences. . . I can put up with a head shake, but there are enough nice cows out there in the world that I don't put up with more than that. Death is not worth it . .

I hope you are staying safe!