HELP WITH BLOAT--Is anyone still up?

[zephyrhillsusan]

I'm afraid Ebony has a mild case of bloat and want to be sure if there's anything else to do?  The internet was down all day so I can just now post.

Yesterday she was out of the barnyard in the round pen where there's some grass, etc. for about 2 hours in the evening.  This morning DH put her out again and told me a couple hours later that he had done so.  I couldn't get out right then so asked him to put her back in the barnyard.  She was maybe out there 3 hours.  There's still a lot of uneaten grass, but you can see she ate the tops of the longer grass.

Tonight she refused her grain, just licked at it and walked away.  

Ate a bit of hay, then stopped.  

She looked quite round compared to what she's been since calving (more of a hollow look), so I listened to her rumen.  I'm sorry to say I've never put my ear there before, but I really couldn't hear anything.  Just very slight crackles like rustling cellophane.  (I listened to Siobhan's to compare, and hers sounded more active.)

She turned her head and licked at that spot, like I've seen her do for contractions, so I assumed she was in pain.

I put baking soda in with her feed along with a puddle of molasses, and she tasted it but would not eat it.

I called the vet and while I waited to hear back, mixed 1 cup baking soda in a beer bottle of water.  DH held her while I got it down her.  She started burping quite a few times, then had a tiny bit of poop, perhaps 1/5 of her normal amount, pretty runny but not diarrhea (about what I'd expect after getting grass).  When we let her go, she took a little water, then went to eat some hay.

Heard back from the vet, and he said to give her 2 cups of PGA (apparently moonshine, and that's a new one for me).  I asked if vodka was okay, and he said yes, the closer to 100 proof the better.  Btw, he knows her size, that she's a Dexter.  I said I'd given the baking soda and that she was burping, had drunk a bit, and was eating hay.  He said we were probably okay.  I said I'd check in an hour and see how she was.

We just went out, and there were a couple of splatty bits of poop, but not what I hoped to see.  She still looked quite puffed out, is the best way I can describe it.  So I gave her about 1 1/2 cups of 80 proof (40%) vodka, which she DID NOT like!  I guess I maybe got a cup into her.  She did begin burping quite a bit.  I listened to her rumen some more, and I heard a bit of activity, but not what I hoped to hear.  What I'm really praying for is a great big POOP!

I'm going to stay up and check on her, but wanted to holler for help first.  Any suggestions for things I haven't tried?  I'm out of baking soda, unfortunately.  I do have more vodka, though.  I don't know if I could get it in her by myself, though, and DH has gone to bed so I'm on my own.

Would it help to take her for a walk like it does with colicky horses?  I took her grain away so the chickens wouldn't eat it, although they're up for the night now.  However, I hesitate to give it to her if things are just sitting in there stagnating.  I don't want it to ferment.

I'd sure appreciate any thoughts anyone has!

[eljay]

I've never heard of giving alcohol for bloat. I'm not very experienced but here are some ideas. Walking is good. If you can keep her head elevated a little it will help her to burp more, or you can put a stick in her mouth to help her burp. Is her rumen still all crackly sounding or are you hearing the rhythmic whoosh like Sihoban?

[eljay]

Maybe this will give you some ideas until you hear from others.

familycow.proboards.com/thread/42301

[zephyrhillsusan]

Thanks, Eljay! I've been hovering over my computer. I'll go out and walk her around, then listen again when I'm done. It was still crackles, but a tiny gurgle once in a while. Does that sound abnormal/problematic to you?

I'll check back after we take a walk. No, I'd never heard of alcohol, either, but I really trust my vet. He has his own dairy cows. I'm guessing it would help her relax. It sure did help her burp like the baking soda did.

I'm so thankful for this forum because without any internet to check anything, I still remembered baking soda and sticking the bottle in the left corner of her mouth without pointing her nose to the sky, giving her a chance to swallow, etc. Why do these things have to happen on Saturday night, though?

[eljay]

The crackling sound is bad, but hearing the gurgling is an improvement. I know you don't have any more baking soda. I wish I had some ideas for what to give her if you don't have that. I hoe she improves quickly for you.

[3cows]

I have given vegetable oil when a cow bloated from eating hedge apples, and baking soda for minor bloat after one got into the chicken food once, but never alcohol, so I am stumped.
As eljay said, walking is good, baking soda slurries, and I would probably start her on some Probios asap. The alcohol really confuses me...
Hope someone chimes in and something works for you.

[3cows]

This is from Merck-- www.merckmanuals.com/vet/digestive_system/diseases_of_the_ruminant_forestomach/bloat_in_ruminants.html

[blaithin]

Alcohol helps with colic, usually beer is used though not hard liquor. That may just be a preference though!

[4ever]

Here is a recent thread with Hubert's advice. familycow.proboards.com/thread/70950/bloat

[sdmilkmaid]

You can tie a piece of broomstick in her mouth, like a bit on a horse. It will drive her nuts trying to spit it out, but it keeps her chewing and salivating, helping her to burp more. I think when I did that, I put it in for a while, then took it out for awhile, just so the cow wouldn't chew her jaws raw...
Prayin' for ya
Rachel

[zephyrhillsusan]

Thanks so much, you all! While I was heading out to walk her, the oil thing popped into my mind, but I wanted to walk her first (ETA, and I couldn't remember how much or for sure that it was the right thing to do).

Here's the current status: I found her laying down in the corner of the barnyard, but not cudding. I made her get up and I walked her about 10 minutes. She leads fine, but kept turning her head to look back, maybe to check on miss baby? Suddenly she went down on her knees, and I was terrified she was going down. I pulled her up and made her keep walking. I could hear two good belches while we walked. Then I tied her, put on regular disposable gloves (all I have) and went in rectally. There was some manure right there, and of course that made her go, I would say about two cups' worth. Less than her usual amount, but decent. I also saw seven little pats where she had been going while walking, before I got out there. I walked her for 20 minutes total, then listened to her rumen. I still hear a few crackles, but heard two good rumbles plus some belches. Then she started eating hay with quite a bit of gusto. So I took a break to come in and check this.

I read the Merck link and the threads on here. Thanks so much! Taking the Merck symptoms plus the info on these threads, I'm guessing the grass was too wet when DH put her out this morning. She's not grunting and no dyspnea, no mouth breathing, no tongue protrusion, no vomiting. So that seems like a good sign, right? She has urinated several times, but I don't know that I'd call it "frequent" like the Merck symptom list.

My plan is to go out and give her 1/2 cup of olive oil, get a dose of probios into her, walk her 15 minutes, then another half cup of olive oil and walk some more. I'll check back when that's done. Hope I can get her to take the oil by myself. Maybe she'll like it.

[Debbie Lincoln]

I do believe you are past the critical stage but I will keep you in prayers tonight.

[Jerseylady*Heather*]

Garden hose down the throat will usually relieve the bloat. unless it is frothy bloat then you need to use the oil. We usually tube them with the garden hose and then I make the kids chase them around. Walking will get the air moving out but running will really get the bloat to go down. Keep her off green grass for the night! Can you post a pic? Does she have a big bubble sticking up on one side above her back bone? When they get this bad I usually stick the hose down their throat, just be careful where the other end is pointing! Hope she is better!

[Pinevalleydexter]

All good advice, I will have to be careful with my cows when and if we ever get green grass again. Also keeping you in my prayers tonight.

[Dianne Ader]

I have nothing to add...but wanted to say, I am thinking of you & your cow. Hope she is feeling better!

Dianne

[zephyrhillsusan]

Thanks so much for the prayers,you all! And the good advice, too! You all are the best!

When I went out almost an hour ago, she was cudding. I figured that was a good sign. I tried to get her to eat the olive oil, but no go. When I tried to put the probios in her mouth, she got up. She still looked bloated, although definitely not above her backbone--just round. So I put the rest of the probios in the beer bottle with half a cup of olive oil. I tied her up and did my best to get it in her. Whew! All I can say is, she wasn't feeling too bad. I have a few good bruises to show for it, but I got most of it in her. Then I walked her for 10 minutes, when she went down on her knees and writhed her head from side to side on the ground. I pulled her up again, and she tried it again. On reflection, I think it was a version of passive resistance to being forced to walk when she wanted to lie down. She didn't seem to be in pain at all that I could tell. Again, I heard several belches while we walked, and she gave two little splats of manure before I realized she was trying to go, but by the time I let her stop walking, she was done.

Then I remembered the rumen massage and stood there and massaged it good for about 10 minutes. She really seemed to like that and leaned into my hand. Whether it was the oil or the walking or the massage--or all of them--she gave several long belches, and I could hear and feel things gurgling along under my hand. She walked over to her hay and started eating, so after massaging her rumen a few more minutes, I left her there.

Heather, her rumen had gone down visibly by the time I left. There was an actual dip where it had been rounded before, although never distended as much as you described. She's dry-lotted in the barnyard, no grass yet, just hay. My DH just woke up, so I told him not to let her on the grass in the morning. We'll keep her off it for a couple days, definitely--and no more going out in the morning until 2 hours after it's dry!

I was just trying to buy bloat blocks at Tractor Supply today, and they had never heard of them. Bummer! I'll try the Co-op on Monday. This is SOOO beef country, and everyone just throws them out in a field and leaves them alone.

I'm going to trust that you're right, Debbie, and I'm going to bed. My DH will be out there in about 5 hours to feed (hay) and check her. I'm going to fall asleep with those rumbling belches singing in my ear. Thank you all again, so much!

[carragheencritters]

Oh no Susan, I have just seen this when taking a break from chores.
This will be your season for bloat. Spring, when th3e grass starts growing as does the clove. The riskiest thing for bloat is short clover in the morning when the dew is still on it.

For the future, ASAP 250ml /1 cup oil, any sort, we keep drums of canola oil on hand. We get bloat too frequently for my liking. Massage the rumen, and walk her around, within 5 minutes her rumen should be down. If not, another 1 cup of oil and repeat. If no improvement, time for a vet, or tube her, or in a real emergency trocar her, straight into her rumen. The vet can always patch her up later. I have only once been that close, ran to get the trocar and some alcohol to prep, by the time I got back she had obviously done some great big belches and had gone down.

After bloat, keep her off grass for a few days, lots of high fibre hay. In the future before she goes out to pasture, fill her belly first with high fibre hay such as rough pasture hay or a cereal hay, so that she isn't hungry. and let her out after the dew has driede off. The high fibre hay means she will ruminate more (chew her cud) to digest it and produce lots of saliva. Saliva is a natural surfactant which will break down the frothy bubbles of gas.

We find bloat blocks don't work very well, they just don't consume enough to be of any use. We use a bloat treatment that goes in the water, it's alcohol ethoxylate in a liquid form (this is also the active ingredient in the bloat blocks) every time they have a drink they treat them selves with a dose.

Don't stress over her doing little poops. She probably has already pooped out all she can. When they have a tummy ache with bloat they pee and poop frequently trying to relieve the pain, she probably had already done this and there wasn't much left to go.

Where I live it is beef country too, and everyone treats for bloat. Our rich pastures after rain lend itself to all sorts of issues. Farmers would lose too many cattle if they didn't treat. Last year we had a shocker of a spring, 3 bloated in one morning. I looked next door and saw our neighbour dragging off one of 3 steers that had dies overnight from bloat. We saved out girls.

I didn't have time to read all the other replies so if I have duplicated, I apologise.

Glad to read your last post, and all is good. Have a bit of rest and look after yourself too.

Don't forget, if she has bloated once she may be a cow that is prone to bloat, so try and keep her risk as low as possible.

PS If you can't get any bloat treatment, try floating oil on top of her water trough, or mix some oil in some feed and give her after she grazes. Local farmers here often use diesel in their water troughs too. Sounds a bit rough to me, but I suppose what ever works.

[Nonesuch Melissa]

Sounds like you did everything right. Everyone talks about tying sticks in the mouth 'like a bit' but when Buttercup bloated I just stuck a good ol' curb bit in her mouth on a single strap headstall. Walking is excellent, when I tired out I put the dog on her... just enough to keep her moving at a trot. When walking on a halter I'd stop every little while and kneed her in the rumen side which brought up some nice burps, I have pretty severe hand arthritis now and massage is not my strong suit. I've never had to put the hose down her but I would. I also bought the trocar just in case it's ever needed. Better to have and not need than the other way around.

Keep her off grain for a couple of days too. Any rich feed can cause a relapse. Also don't be shocked if she looks like she lost 20 pounds overnight.

Here is hoping you got some rest.

[eljay]

I'm glad she's doing better. Here's hoping that continues for her.

[zephyrhillsusan]

I woke up at 4 am, so went and checked her.  She was standing, chewing her cud, and I saw a new poop.  I heard a really good belch, so I was able to go back and sleep some more.

This morning she is up standing, a couple medium poops (which show in one of the photos).  Her rumen is still down, and she looks alert.  



I apologize for the huge photos, that's all I can get to work from Tinypic.  The shine is the last of the oil I wiped on her in case she licked and for lack of a towel.



Another angle.  You can see the two patties in the background.



Ebony's sweet face, licking mineral salt.  I'll continue to keep an eye on her, keep her off grass for several days, no more grain either.  I'll look into that tube of bloat treatment and also the idea of adding some to the water tanks.

We've never had this happen before with the cows out on pasture, so it's a good thing, since I'd never heard of it.  So many things to learn!  I am thanking God for all of you and your sweet willingness to share advice for those of us who need it.  If I hadn't learned about this on here, I could have missed her being off her grain yesterday, and I shudder to think what might have happened.  Now I know to avoid wet grass and clover, too!  And so does DH.    Thank you, all of you, who responded with advice!  Know I am taking every bit of it to heart.

Have a blessed Sunday!