Post by zephyrhillsusan on Apr 15, 2014 13:24:27 GMT -5
Let me preface by saying that before milking I have been spraying teats thoroughly with iodine teat dip, let sit for at least 30 seconds, then wipe. (Except first day I used the dip cup.) We are now using gloves, too. We start off with hot (wrung out) moist compresses for perhaps 5 minutes on the front quarters, having put tea tree, lavender, thyme & eucalyptus oils in the hot-as-I-can-stand water. After milking we strip the teats, repeat iodine spray and gently wipe so calf won't get all that iodine.
April 10 - Ebony calved early in the morning of April 10. She didn't seem to have fully bagged up that day and Tiggy the heifer was nursing, so I didn't try to milk her.
April 11 - Morning. I noticed that Ebony's front quarters seemed very full and engorged, and I assumed it was edema even though her skin didn't have the puffy feel that can be pressed in. But I thought I should try to milk her out. I scrubbed down the stanchion with strong bleach water, including everything in it, emptied the teat dipper & soaked it in bleach water, etc. After the floor dried my husband helped me get the calf in and hold her while I milked. Ebony was understandably quite restless, but I worked on her for about 20 minutes and got about 2.5 cups, mostly from the rear quarters. I could hardly get anything out of the front quarters.
April 11 - Evening. Put 4 bags of brewed raspberry tea on her feed and milked her where she stood while the calf slept. It went fine till Tiggy woke up and walked away.
I worked mostly on the front quarters, but still got almost nothing from them despite massage, mint balm, etc. I got a quart of colostrum, mostly rear quarters, and froze it.
April 12 - Morning. My daughter came out to help me milk. We started with hot compresses. Kara has very strong hands, and as she stripped the right front teat some yellow substance appeared sticking out, but she couldn't work it out any farther. So I pulled it, and out came the small plug, lower one on the photo. This happened again, and I pulled out the really long one. Ebony spilled the milk twice so I have no idea how much we got; we switched to both using a small hand-held container after this.
Question 1) Are we correct that this is a waxy plug?
Evening. Repeated whole process, but got very little milk. I observed Tiggy, and she nursed the front quarters a bit, but seemed to prefer the rear ones.
April 13 - Morning. Added oils to compress water, used compresses 5 minutes. We both worked on her for about an hour and a quarter during which time we tried to get Tiggy to nurse, but she absolutely wouldn't. The milk came out better at first from the front quarters, then became hard to get out again. I didn't take the milk in to measure because Ebony kept pooping and peeing, and even thought I cleaned her again each time there was poop splattered all over everything, so I just fed it to the chickens. Then I dragged DH out there to build me a shelf on the wall to keep stuff up out of poop's way.
Sunday afternoon I called the vet. He said it's probably normal clots often found a few days after calving, but I could use Pirsue on all four quarters if I'm worried. Just milk out, put in Pirsue, shut the calf away 12 hours, then milk out and leave the calf on her all day. He said we could give Bute every other day, it might help her let down. (I don't have Banamine on hand, but he said you can use Bute for cows.)
Evening - We got more milk and it came out of the front quarters better, for the first time really. It was about 3.5 cups total, I think. We could tell from a couple teats (slimy to wet fingers) that Tiggy had been nursing, plus she had several nice neon yellow poops. When we filtered the milk, this is what we got. We assumed it was still more waxy plug coming out and decided to hold off on the Pirsue. I observed, and Tiggy seemed to be nursing all four quarters without avoiding the front ones.
Question 2) Can she hold up in front quarters only, or is there just more edema since they are more productive?
Question 3) Is this still be part of the normal plug? It feels quite firm and rubbery, not slimy.
April 14 - Morning - I gave her the Bute on her feed & tea. Milking went much better, easier getting it from the front quarters than it was. We got about a quart. (I forgot to measure that day so just have the total amount since I pooled the two milkings to clabber for the chickens.) It strained with no clots. Hooray! She had no noticeable tenderness, although she's still a bit restless so it's hard to tell.
Evening - Getting milk from front quarters was getting a bit easier. We got a total of about 3.5 cups. (See note for morning.) However, there was one tiny yellow clot when I strained it. I decided against starting Pirsue because we would have had to go back out, clean her up again, milk out anything new, and then do the Pirsue. And I really hate to use it if I'm not sure she needs it.
Here is a photo of the pooled April 14 milking, taken this morning after sitting out overnight. The cream seems to have a lot of colostrum still, and even the milk underneath is fairly yellow, as you can see at the top when I tipped the bucket.
April 15 - Morning. We got a little over a quart today, that's the good news. More good news is that we can jiggle her whole udder. The front quarters are still quite firm, especially up high like they have been, but they no longer have that hard feeling. We milked each quarter separately at first and watched closely as we poured it into the bucket--did not see any visible clots. Then partway through, I felt up high on the rear quarter Kara was working on because she said there was a lot of milk in it. Part of it ( up high on the rear) felt hard, and it seemed like I could feel a large, hardish duct lower down, too. Ebony also seemed to react in discomfort, really shifting quite a bit when we massaged those areas. So we worked on it alot, Kara massaging while I milked until nothing more came out.
Question 4) Is it normal to be able to feel a duct that is larger and harder than the others?
When we got inside, we strained the milk we took toward the end from that quarter separately, and got no clots. (Once I had noticed the tenderness, we kept that quarter separate.) However, when we strained the combined milk, this is what we got:
As you can see, there are four small clots. Now I'm getting worried again because this is starting the sixth day of freshening.
Question 5) Could these still be part of the normal stuff clearing out with more milking? Or combined with the new hard area and apparent tenderness, could this be the beginning of mastitis?
Question 6) Would you start the Pirsue? My one fear is that for the Pirsue to do any good, I'll have to shut Tiggy away for 12 hours, and I'm worried that will contribute to the problem as much as the Pirsue might help.
Also, it's going to get below freezing tonight, "feels like" 22°. I had planned to put Ebony and Tiggy in a stall with some fresh hay bedding and even put a fleece sweatshirt on Tiggy because we're having some really cold wind. She's very active, but she shivered a bit this morning. The only reason I waited to put the jacket on is because we could get more rain today, and I want the jacket to be dry and warm for tonight.
I would be so grateful for any help you all could give me! I hate to bother my poor, nice vet again, but if you think it's important, I could email the photos of today's clots to him. Although he has a mobile practice, so I'm not sure he'd see them tonight.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice! (I hope this isn't too long, but I was trying to get all pertinent info in.)
April 10 - Ebony calved early in the morning of April 10. She didn't seem to have fully bagged up that day and Tiggy the heifer was nursing, so I didn't try to milk her.
April 11 - Morning. I noticed that Ebony's front quarters seemed very full and engorged, and I assumed it was edema even though her skin didn't have the puffy feel that can be pressed in. But I thought I should try to milk her out. I scrubbed down the stanchion with strong bleach water, including everything in it, emptied the teat dipper & soaked it in bleach water, etc. After the floor dried my husband helped me get the calf in and hold her while I milked. Ebony was understandably quite restless, but I worked on her for about 20 minutes and got about 2.5 cups, mostly from the rear quarters. I could hardly get anything out of the front quarters.
April 11 - Evening. Put 4 bags of brewed raspberry tea on her feed and milked her where she stood while the calf slept. It went fine till Tiggy woke up and walked away.
I worked mostly on the front quarters, but still got almost nothing from them despite massage, mint balm, etc. I got a quart of colostrum, mostly rear quarters, and froze it.April 12 - Morning. My daughter came out to help me milk. We started with hot compresses. Kara has very strong hands, and as she stripped the right front teat some yellow substance appeared sticking out, but she couldn't work it out any farther. So I pulled it, and out came the small plug, lower one on the photo. This happened again, and I pulled out the really long one. Ebony spilled the milk twice so I have no idea how much we got; we switched to both using a small hand-held container after this.
Question 1) Are we correct that this is a waxy plug?
Evening. Repeated whole process, but got very little milk. I observed Tiggy, and she nursed the front quarters a bit, but seemed to prefer the rear ones.
April 13 - Morning. Added oils to compress water, used compresses 5 minutes. We both worked on her for about an hour and a quarter during which time we tried to get Tiggy to nurse, but she absolutely wouldn't. The milk came out better at first from the front quarters, then became hard to get out again. I didn't take the milk in to measure because Ebony kept pooping and peeing, and even thought I cleaned her again each time there was poop splattered all over everything, so I just fed it to the chickens. Then I dragged DH out there to build me a shelf on the wall to keep stuff up out of poop's way.
Sunday afternoon I called the vet. He said it's probably normal clots often found a few days after calving, but I could use Pirsue on all four quarters if I'm worried. Just milk out, put in Pirsue, shut the calf away 12 hours, then milk out and leave the calf on her all day. He said we could give Bute every other day, it might help her let down. (I don't have Banamine on hand, but he said you can use Bute for cows.)
Evening - We got more milk and it came out of the front quarters better, for the first time really. It was about 3.5 cups total, I think. We could tell from a couple teats (slimy to wet fingers) that Tiggy had been nursing, plus she had several nice neon yellow poops. When we filtered the milk, this is what we got. We assumed it was still more waxy plug coming out and decided to hold off on the Pirsue. I observed, and Tiggy seemed to be nursing all four quarters without avoiding the front ones.
Question 2) Can she hold up in front quarters only, or is there just more edema since they are more productive?
Question 3) Is this still be part of the normal plug? It feels quite firm and rubbery, not slimy.
April 14 - Morning - I gave her the Bute on her feed & tea. Milking went much better, easier getting it from the front quarters than it was. We got about a quart. (I forgot to measure that day so just have the total amount since I pooled the two milkings to clabber for the chickens.) It strained with no clots. Hooray! She had no noticeable tenderness, although she's still a bit restless so it's hard to tell.
Evening - Getting milk from front quarters was getting a bit easier. We got a total of about 3.5 cups. (See note for morning.) However, there was one tiny yellow clot when I strained it. I decided against starting Pirsue because we would have had to go back out, clean her up again, milk out anything new, and then do the Pirsue. And I really hate to use it if I'm not sure she needs it.
Here is a photo of the pooled April 14 milking, taken this morning after sitting out overnight. The cream seems to have a lot of colostrum still, and even the milk underneath is fairly yellow, as you can see at the top when I tipped the bucket.
April 15 - Morning. We got a little over a quart today, that's the good news. More good news is that we can jiggle her whole udder. The front quarters are still quite firm, especially up high like they have been, but they no longer have that hard feeling. We milked each quarter separately at first and watched closely as we poured it into the bucket--did not see any visible clots. Then partway through, I felt up high on the rear quarter Kara was working on because she said there was a lot of milk in it. Part of it ( up high on the rear) felt hard, and it seemed like I could feel a large, hardish duct lower down, too. Ebony also seemed to react in discomfort, really shifting quite a bit when we massaged those areas. So we worked on it alot, Kara massaging while I milked until nothing more came out.
Question 4) Is it normal to be able to feel a duct that is larger and harder than the others?
When we got inside, we strained the milk we took toward the end from that quarter separately, and got no clots. (Once I had noticed the tenderness, we kept that quarter separate.) However, when we strained the combined milk, this is what we got:
As you can see, there are four small clots. Now I'm getting worried again because this is starting the sixth day of freshening.
Question 5) Could these still be part of the normal stuff clearing out with more milking? Or combined with the new hard area and apparent tenderness, could this be the beginning of mastitis?
Question 6) Would you start the Pirsue? My one fear is that for the Pirsue to do any good, I'll have to shut Tiggy away for 12 hours, and I'm worried that will contribute to the problem as much as the Pirsue might help.
Also, it's going to get below freezing tonight, "feels like" 22°. I had planned to put Ebony and Tiggy in a stall with some fresh hay bedding and even put a fleece sweatshirt on Tiggy because we're having some really cold wind. She's very active, but she shivered a bit this morning. The only reason I waited to put the jacket on is because we could get more rain today, and I want the jacket to be dry and warm for tonight.
I would be so grateful for any help you all could give me! I hate to bother my poor, nice vet again, but if you think it's important, I could email the photos of today's clots to him. Although he has a mobile practice, so I'm not sure he'd see them tonight.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice! (I hope this isn't too long, but I was trying to get all pertinent info in.)
I'm not going to slack, though!
