Alfalfa cubes versus pellets

[Lannie]

Rich went shopping yesterday and got 5 bags of alfalfa pellets in Rapid City. We were down to our last bag. This afternoon we went out and opened one of the bags to put it in the feed can (plastic garbage can) and it was cubes. Very LARGE cubes. Rich was so angry that he got the wrong kind, but he was in a hurry yesterday and didn't READ the bag.

I don't think it would matter with Bandit because she actually chews her food, but Cricket doesn't. She inhales. This is why I can't give her dry pellets - I have to soak them first so they're soft or she'll choke on them. I brought a couple of these cubes in the house to see if they'll soften in water, and they seem to be taking an AWFULLY long time. Does this mean I have to soak them overnight? If so, it's going to mean hauling my wagon with the milker out along with TWO extra buckets (one with the beet pulp and molasses water and another with soaked cubes). I don't even HAVE an extra bucket right at the moment. We use both the buckets in the barns every day during chores. And I don't think I could carry the treat bucket if I put all of it together (beet pulp and cubes) and soaked enough for both cows.

I'm so worried Cricket will "inhale" one of those hard cubes, get it stuck, and choke to death while I'm milking her. We can't take them back right now because it would cost nearly $60.00 just for the gas to go there and back and we just don't have any extra money. Should I just not give Cricket any "treats" and stick to just a flake of alfalfa hay during milking? That's what I'm thinking, unless someone has a better idea. Cricket is going to be MAJORLY PO'd.

~Lannie

[kellyhensing]

I feed the cubes soaked overnight.
If you can't do that, then I would skip them. I think they can choke on them.
I have read that the cubes are better than the pellets for them. Longer fibers, I gather.
-Kelly

[parndt]

My cubes only soak for an hour or so and they are nice and soft. After Daisy calved this spring I gave her some dry cubes and ended up with my arm jammed down her throat trying to retrieve a stuck one. If Cricket doesn't chew, don't give her dry cubes! I won't give Bonnie dry cubes either because I am super paranoid now.

[Lannie]

They get plenty enough long fiber in their hay, I just give them the pellets with beet pulp and molasses as a stanchion treat. Cricket will probably be OK with just the alfalfa hay, but she tends to get peeved when I don't bring her pellets right on time. Geez, my cows walk all over me.

I guess I'll give some to Bandit when I milk her, and whatever we have left still unopened next month when Rich goes shopping, he can take back and exchange.

Please think of me this next month as I'm being pooped on and tail-whacked every morning by Cricket, who will no doubt pitch a major fit over this.

~Lannie

[Lannie]

Sorry, I was typing while you were posting, Pam. I'm super paranoid, too. I had a horse choke on dry pellets once, and it nearly killed him. Cost us $550 and a trip to the veterinary college to save him. And I can't COUNT the times Cricket has gotten a wad stuck in her throat, even soaked, but she usually coughs them out. It's still traumatic for ME, though. I had to do a cow-Heimlich on her once, and THAT scared the crap out of me. So no way will she get any of these dry.

Maybe I can find an old bucket out in the shop that can be cleaned up enough to soak the cubes in. I just don't know... I'll figure something out. And Rich promised to actually READ the bags in the future, whether he's in a hurry or not! LOL!

(Do you know, he felt so bad about this, he offered to go out and hammer those things down into little pieces, one bag at a time? Like he doesn't already have enough to do around here.)

~Lannie

[ebcsmom]

That was nice of him! Poor guy! My dh has done similar things and me too! My cow does not like alfalfa cubes at all! She gets ANGRY when she sees them. So I started buying alfalfa and oat pellets. However, I have this huge bag of cubes sitting in the barn that NEEDS to be used. How much water do you usually soak them in? I wander if you could soak alfalfa cubes and beet pulp together?

[AnnB (NE)]

Soak them in an equal amount of HOT water and they'll fluff up in a few minutes.

Old Fancy used to like Alfalfa cubes and beet pulp soaked together, with a bit of molasses mixed in. But I haven't bought any beet pulp in about 5 years, it was too hard find a consistent source here.


Ann B

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[simplynaturalfarm]

Lannie, I have had Lena choke twice on cubes, so I would never feed them dry. But if you have super hot water they will fluff up in an hour or so here. Can you add them to the beet pulp you soak already?
Can you put them in the milk pump box to keep them from freezing up overnight? I do all kinds of inventive things like that LOL. I even put them in my van but the edges froze solid last night.

[simplynaturalfarm]

Why is Cricket pooping and being a brat?

[farmeratheart]

When Rich goes to exchange the cubes for pellets have him pick up another bucket (or 2).
If you have animals you can never have too many buckets. If you have any restaurants or bakeries nearby they will sometimes let you have 3 or 5 gal buckets free or cheap.

[Janene]

Nov 30, 2012 20:36:28 GMT -5 simplynaturalfarm said:

Why is Cricket pooping and being a brat?

Her regimen/feed changed.....who has who trained? Too bad we couldn't smack them back with a poopy tail!
Janene

[simplynaturalfarm]

*G* - she was having attitude BEFORE the change in food and so I wondered why.
Yes, a poopy tail in their face . . . how about a smash to the rib cage with a hard head . . . that would hurt ME more than them!

[jerseylovinliz]

I feed alfalfa cubes dry daily. (They look like miniature hay bales.) I use those as my bulk to make the cows take longer to eat. Otherwise they gooble down everything else & get restless. They have to chew (aka crunch very loudly) the cubes for a while. Dolly will pitch a fit if she gets the little pellets. She literally lets them dribble out of her mouth (slowly so it's louder when they hit her feed bucket). If it wasn't so frustrating it'd be funny. I tried soaking the big cubes a few times but the cows wouldn't eat it & I got tired of doing it for nothing.

I've never had one choke or even cough but y'all are freaking me out. If it ain't broke don't fix it? OR an ounce of prevention... I'm going to ponder this for a while. Gee thanks!!!

[simplynaturalfarm]

Liz, if you were to look back on the discussions of this before, I poo pooed the whole thing. Seriously, I told them I had fed them forever and NEVER had a choke. . . every new person who came on I said that I never had an issue.
Then this year I had Lena choke twice, give me absolute heart failure as she coughed and coughed and me pounding on her praying I did NOT have to shove my arm down her throat and I thought, "Know what . . . I am not doing this anymore."
What did I do? I thought must have been a serious fluke, so I fed them again. 2 days later she did it again!!
So, while I fed them with success for many years, one dead cow would be my costly mistake.
How's that for guilt tripping *G*

[Becky]

There is nothing worse than watching a choke It this cross of sheer panic, combined with a sense of absolute helplessness. I have had 3 chokes on alfalfa pellets. The first one I had the same thought as Heather. Fluke.... Until it happened again about a month later. The third was my ex-husband being a "know-it-all" and telling me I was stupid for feeding alfalfa pellets with with a ginormous rock in the feed pan. He just dumped them in the ground, and sure enough, it was another vet bill. Had to tube that one!!
I just won't feed any alfalfa that isn't in hay/silage type form without soaking. Just me, though. It scares the crap out of me!!

Becky

[haecklers]

So, forgive my newbie question here, but if a cow coughs after eating (and pretty much only then) does that mean she's "inhaling" her food? Here I was worried mine had hardware disease!

Lannie, do you have electric in your barn? Maybe you could get a cheap hot pot and heat the water in there without having to haul the water out from the house??

[Lannie]

Renate, coughing is vastly different than choking. When they choke, they stagger around blindly, NOT coughing because their airway is blocked, but exuding vast quantities of snot and chewed food out their nose. When they finally DO manage to cough, then it's cleared, but the effects linger for a while, just like if you choked on something, you know, you'd still feel it in your throat for some time afterward.

Heather, Cricket's not being a pain yet, but she will be. She's spoiled rotten and thinks she's the Queen of the Barn. We still have regular discussions on that subject, she and I, but she has different ideas on things than I do. Once she's in the stanchion, though, she's a perfect angel. It's the before time that's difficult. As in, "FEED ME NOW and stop dithering about picking up poop and straightening up the mess we made last night!"

I can scrounge another bucket, it's the logistics of getting it to the barn and back that are frustrating. I have room on my cart for my "tool box" that holds my hot water, soap, towels, air hose, gloves, etc., the Surge bucket, and one other bucket, which is what I have the soaked beet pulp in. If I'm milking both cows, then I also have to carry a covered milking pail out with me, so I have something to empty the Surge bucket into between cows. One hand to pull the cart, one to carry the milk pail that doesn't fit, and no hands left to carry another bucket of either hot water or soaked cubes. "Make two trips," you say? NO. It's too far, and I'm in my winter boots now which are hard to lug around (I feel like I have lead weights on my feet), and something will cool off too fast in the cold, sitting in the barn, while I go the 300 feet back to the house to get whatever part I left, and 300 feet back to the barn. Stuff will freeze in a matter of minutes left out in the open, and my hot water for udder washing needs to be the last thing brought out, because washing up in cold water sucks.

The Milk Sucker box doesn't have room in it for a bucket. I sometimes put my jar of boob lube in there, but a bucket is way too big to fit. That would be a good idea, though.

I'm going to TRY to see if I can mix the cubes and beet pulp/molasses in the same bucket, but I worry it won't mix properly because it will be so deep and dense in the bucket. Optimally, what I'd like to do is mix it up in their treat dishes individually, because Bandit gets less alfalfa pellets than Cricket, and slightly more beet pulp, but I guess at least while I'm dealing with these cubes, we'll have to punt.

I just don't know what I've got that's sturdy and long enough to stir that mess once it's all soaked and expanded. Or if I even have enough strength in my hands to stir it if I DO find something to stir it with.

~Lannie

[rezzfullacres]

If you are mixing it in the house you can use a 1/2 drill with a mud mixer on it..

[simplynaturalfarm]

It really doesn't matter if it mixes inappropriately . . . Although if you have enough time, just do 2-3 layers and when it puffs it mixes. It only takes an extra minute per day to use a half scoop and scoop one of beet pulp, one of alfalfa etc.
Can you surround it in blankets - the cats might sleep on it since it started out warm LOL
How about a cooler? They are designed to keep hot things hot too. Since I built my box around my outside waterer, the water NEVER freezes and there is no electric in there. Maybe an insulated box in the barn would keep it from freezing. We get coolers galore for free (at the vet clinic all vx are mailed in cooler boxes), and something like that would work great. I will trade you coolers for one cute heifer? *G*

[Lannie]

Heather, ask me in another week when I've had it right up to HERE with her! She's a pushy little thing, and she likes to jump around a lot. Trying to get a lead rope on and off of her is maddening. I'm actually glad she'll be going away in a few months. Helen behaves like an angel, and never argues with me, and she's TWICE Patty's size! LOL! I just tell Helen, "Hold still!" and she does, I clip on, tie her to the stall wall, and I'm done.

I brought "some" cubes in this morning, having to guess what the equivalent would be to two coffee cans full of pellets. I tossed the dry beet pulp in on top of them, and tomorrow early I'll put hot water on them and see what happens. It never even occurred to me that I could just reach in there and mix it with my HANDS. Duh. I'll be right there in the kitchen and can wash up after I've mixed it. Then I'll just dump out half into Cricket's bowl and half into Bandit's bowl when I get out to the barn.

I'll let you all know how that works, or doesn't work, tomorrow.

Thanks for the ideas and help! My brain just seizes up when I'm confronted with a sudden change!

~Lannie