*6 Lingering salty milk ... Mastitis?

[daisyhill]

Help help! I am at the end of my limited knowledge and wisdom.

I'm sorry this is so long, but I'm trying to give all the pertinent information. I hope someone has time to read and comment.

About three weeks ago, Liberty's milk strained oddly, leaving bright yellow scum on the filter. My now sister-in-law (she married my brother last weekend) posted a thread about it here (her screen name is countrymaid), and several people questioned whether it was just butterfat. This has happened before, so we thought maybe so, but the milk seemed funny, and some family members thought it tasted salty.

I tasted all four quarters the second day after the yellow scum, and two were definately salty. We immediately gave Liberty a bunch of comfrey leaves and red-raspberry leaves, and started milking her out 5-6 times a day. She is feeding April (born on April 1st) and Ferdinand (adopted 2 weeks later). Liberty produces an insane amount of milk, and usually the calves leave us between one and two gallons per milking (TAD). From the beginning, they have largely ignored the back right quarter, which has always been her highest producer.

Well, at first this treatment seemed to work. After about four days, the milk in those quarters tasted sweet again, so we started drinking it. She never had clumps, never had a hot hard udder, and after the first two days, the milk strained perfectly. After one day of good milk, it was disgustingly salty again, but just in the big back quarter. So, this time, we called the vet. He gave us an antibiotic injection to give her, which we did, for three days and then discarded the milk for the requisite time (continuing to milk 4-6 times per day). Tasted again at the end, and it was still SALTY! Great! So, we kept milking her out and talked to a neighbor with a cow. She recommended teat infusions (Today), so we tried that. We separated the calves, milked her out thoroughly, used the infusion in the bad quarter, 12 hours later milked her out again (via calf power), separated the calves again, did the second infusion, kept the calves away for another 12 hours and then let them back together again. We went back to TAD milking, and discarded the milk for another five days. (Maybe we should have kept milking multiple times a day? We went back to TAD because of the wedding, there just did not seem to be enough time in a day).

Tast test again on Sunday, June 20th showed SALTY MILK STILL! It is only the big back quarter, which the calves won't touch. So, we are separating the calves at night, milking 2-3 gallons out of her good three, and letting the greedy goons finish up the rest. They are hungry, so they will empty the salty one in the morning, but during the day they keep ignoring it. The milk continues to be free of clumps, her bag feels normal, and after a few days of separating the calves at night, her milk tastes better but it is still not good.

I frequently drink warm milk at milking time, and that big back quarter is the one I usually milk for that--normally it tastes like melted ice-cream, and this salty stuff is nasty!

Please help! I am discouraged, and dread milking 6 times a day forever. Is there anything we can do? Do you think it would help to separate the calves completely? (I can't imagine why it would--it is the only thing I could think of. We milked her two years after her last calf, with zero issues. Her last calf she had while she was still at the dairy, and I think April is the first calf she has been allowed to keep.)

Liberty is a wonderful mother, and almost all the time she is a perfect angel for us. I really want her to be all right!

Thanks so much.

[suzorse]

have you changed feed or added something different, I have had the salty milk from different feeds , added BOSS and got salty milk cut out the BOSS and 4 days later sweet milk again, went to a livestock feed for steers and salty milk went back to straight COB with molassas and it sweetened up again
just a thought Suzanne

[daisyhill]

No, no change in feed. Also, it is only one quarter that is salty. The other three are fine.

[Janene]

What is she getting for vitamins? You might add some A and E to her feed.
How salty is it? Slightly salty or really salty?
Janene

PS How much water is she drinking/getting a day? Sometimes if they don't drink enough water it will cause issues.

[frogHOLR]

Here's what I would do (for what it's worth!):
Remove the calves from her 24/7 for the time being. Continue to milk her 2x/day like you normally would. BUT, let the calves nurse that salty quarter out 4+ times/day (not the other three - only the salty one). They will be able to root out the cootie that is in there making trouble for you. They will also keep the milk flowing from that quarter, which will be healthier for it. Once you get everything back under control, you can put the calves back on her again and see how it goes. Calves (especially HUNGRY ones!) are a milker's best friend when the milk turns clumpy or salty. It still takes time from your day, but you can just stand there and cover the other 3 teats rather than be sitting trying to hand milk/strip a troublesome quarter. Good luck and I hope this helps!!

[wyomama]

Mastitis (inflammation in the mammary gland) isn't always from a bug. I'm guessing that what is happening is the quarter engorging repeatedly (from her letting down when the calves nurse the other three) has caused some internal injury just from the stress on the tissues.

I think frogholr has a great plan - separate the calves, and make them nurse the salty quarter first several times a day. I would expect that the milk would be sweet again in a matter of two or three days, and she'll be fine with some extra care taken to make sure her udder gets emptied completely on a regular basis.

[daisyhill]

Well! We had the milk from Liberty's bad quarter tested, and it came back clear, no signs of bacterial growth.

However, it is still terribly salty. Anybody have any ideas why? I thought that salty milk MEANT mastitis, so assumed that she had mastitis. Apparently it is from something else, but what? It has been like this for over a month now.

It is only one quarter that is bad, the other three are sweet as ever.

Is there ANYTHING we can do to remedy this? It is her highest producing quarter that tastes bad.

[wyomama]

Salty milk DOES mean mastitis. The thing is, though, that "mastitis" only means "inflammation of the mammary tissue". Not all inflammation of the mammary tissue is caused by bacterial infection.

Frequent milking, a circulation and healing stimulating topical rub - I prefer peppermint ointments - and immune support for the cow.

[daisyhill]

Wyomama,
Thanks very much for the clarification. I have had a feeling all along that this was a stress issue--this is her heaviest quarter, and from day one the calves have ignored it. The other three quarters made plenty of milk for the two of them (her heifer and a feeder bull calf), and she would come in just bulging in that one quarter. I suspect that was the root of the problem.

Well, for the longest time, salty taste was the ONLY symptom--no heat, no hard spots, no clumps or specks in the milk. It even strained just fine.

Now we are in real trouble. That quarter is all hard and "meaty" feeling, it won't soften up, the milk is full of small clumps, and dark yellow. I've been rubbing with peppermint ointment, and massaging and milking multiple times today and yesterday. I think it is starting to feel softer, but now I am really worried. She wouldn't eat her breakfast this morning, and normally she is a big pig and lovingly licks every speck from her trough. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Otherwise she seems perky enough, and is very patient with all the massaging and peppermint.

[daisyhill]

Liberty has had an ongoing subclinical mastitis in one quarter for the last six weeks. A bacteria test came back clear, no bacteria in the milk.

Now, it seems to have become much, much worse. Her bag is hard and hot in that quarter. I've been rubbing in peppermint ointment and working on massaging that quarter and milking it out about every three hours today. She did not eat her breakfast, and seems a bit lethargic (it is also fairly hot and muggy).

Are cow noses supposed to be warm or cool?

Is there anything else I can do? Should I milk her more often? I am worried.

[frogHOLR]

I vote continue with what you are doing. Use the calf to milk that quarter out frequently if you can (they are MUCH better at getting them empty than we are!). Does she have a temperature? Frequent milkings, peppermint rubs and a watchful eye will often times help. Also, you can supplement her with Vit C and Vit E. I give at least 7,500mg of the Vit C and 1,000IU of the Vit E two times per day.

If she starts to look TOO puny, then I would think about hitting her with antibiotics. Can you get another milk sample sent off to a lab for culture? Then you might know what you are dealing with in the case that you decide to try the antibiotics. I read a study recently that showed cows who were treated right off the bat with antibiotics didn't do any better over the long haul than those that were treated 2 days later after a culture returned with the proper diagnosis. Just food for thought!

[daisyhill]

Thanks for the encouragement. I think she is somewhat better today--at least she ate her food, and milking was easier. I still feel hard knots in the udder, and the milk is full of clots and clumps.

Yes, she has had two rounds of antibiotic treatments--Today infusions, and also a round of injections. The salty milk did not clear up, and a sample sent significantly after the antibiotic withdrawal time came back clear of bacteria. I am very reluctant to do antibiotics again, because they did no good before, and because the sample came back clear. I know it is possible that we now have some bacteria going, because the mastitis has become so much worse, but I guess I'll keep up the peppermint milking for another day anyway.

It has been six weeks now, dealing with this bad quarter, and I'm getting discouraged.

[cccjerseys]

Jul 20, 2010 9:26:54 GMT -5 daisyhill said:

I am very reluctant to do antibiotics again, because they did no good before, and because the sample came back clear.

It has been six weeks now, dealing with this bad quarter, and I'm getting discouraged.

Was the sample taken after the antibotic? If it was and was clear then the antibotics did do some good. You may need a different one. I would do another sample before any antibotics and see what it says then treat accordlying. She just might have not been on them long enough. Mastitus is so difficult to treat and is caused by so many different bugs.
You are doing a good job don't give up now.
Shirla

[daisyhill]

Oh horrors! We have mastitis in another quarter now. Liberty's back right quarter has had this weird ongoing thing with salty milk.

Now, all of a sudden the front left has a very gooey case of mastitis. It was like trying to milk out a baked custard. We did a lot of milking and massaging, and got a lot of gunk out, milking several times a day, until it got to the point of almost being liquid milk. I called the vet first thing on Monday morning, and got samples in to be cultured from both bad quarters. That back right bad quarter had tested with no bacteria earlier in this saga, but I just can't quite believe it. What is going on in the front left is completely different though, so maybe it is a brand new problem. Whatever it is, I want to know exactly! The vet also had me start on a new round of teat infusions, and said to do them for five days. So, we'll see I guess! This morning (after one infusion, last night) the front left was giving much more "milky" looking milk, and no visible clumps--just yellow and a bit viscous. Gross, but better than custard!

No milk for more than a week--Boo Hoo!

If this doesn't work to clear up the mastitis, then I suppose I'm left with either drying up the bad quarters, or drying her off completely. I'd feel okay about drying her off if she was bred, but she isn't. I don't really want to breed her until she is in better health. Also, I think she is a little too thin. I can see three bumps on her spine, and four almost five ribs. She looked better to me when I could see three almost four ribs, but I'm not really a judge. The vet did say she looked okay when he did her feet. I'm hoping she'll get in better condition as her lactation slows a bit.

Does anyone know, can you dry off one quarter without "killing" it? What does "killing" a quarter mean and involve?

[briarrose]

Killing a quarter off means it will never freshen again, it will in effect be nonfunctional. I've never had to do it so can't tell you what is involved. You can on the other dry off just one quarter. I had a cow long ago that had a spider vien in one teat so everytime she came fresh, I dried it off and just milked the other three.

Drying off a quarter that has mastitis is only delaying the problem. Most will refreshen with mastitis. I have a girlfriend that has been fighting mastitis for almost 2 months now. Trying everything and nothing seemed to help. She is now using ( for about 2 days) Collodial Silver (sp) infusions. You can make it yourself or get it at the health food store. The quarter was rock hard, only produced clear fluid and very little of that. Once she started this infusion, she is getting all the gunk and nasty crap out of the quarter and yesterday even got some milk! The bag is softening and she is one Happy Lady!

I don't know much about it from personel experience, but I understand they are working wonders with it so it might be worth checking into for you. I know that I am going to get one of the burners they use to make it just in case I ever have a need. She figured at this point she had nothing to loose since nothing else was working for her.

I think it would be worth checking into. Hope this helps.

Kristy

[nightskyfarm]

I would send in a sample to the nearest lab and have it cultured to see what to treat her with before throwing up your hands. You need to get rid of the mastitis before her next lactation. After you do that, then look at your management and milking practices. There is a cause for mastitis and sometimes it's just lurking around the corner where you hadn't noticed it before or it's just a matter of changing one thing in your milking practice.

[daisyhill]

Liberty's cultures just came back, and the old bad back right is diagnosed as Staph Aureus, while the newly mastitic front left is Klebsiella. Now, from what I've read of Klebsiella it sounds pretty hopeless. Is this the end for Liberty? Can I kill that quarter? Any thoughts anyone?

The vet is recommending that I continue the Spectramast Teat Infusions (she has had them seven days already), but the stuff I am reading sounds like the klebsiella is pretty much antibiotic resistant, and I am just going to cause trouble with more infusions. I am worried also about spreading infection.

[daisyhill]

I'm posting this here too, in hopes that someone will see it. Liberty's cultures came back, showing Staph Aureus in the back right that has been giving trouble all summer, and Klebsiella in the front right that just started mastitis.

Does anyone know anything about Klebsiella? What I have read so-far sounds pretty much like no hope for cure. At least, that antibiotics will do no good. What about Staph A? She has just finished a week of Spectramast teat infusions, and the milk in the Staph A quarter looks and strains well. The Klebsiella quarter is still straining slowly with a yellow film on the filter. (I started on the infusions at the vet's recommendation before the cultures came back).

I've heard some things that sounded like Staph A is incurable as well. Is this true?

Thanks for any help.

[frogHOLR]

daisyhill,

I was in your boat a few months ago. I worried myself into a frenzy and ended up with my own little door prize - a bladder infection! I read everything I could get my hands on about klebsiella and was sure my cow was going to die by the weekend. My dh was unplussed by the hoopla over the lab results (she had 30cfu of Kleb) and assured me that all would be fine. <snort!> I was ready to dig the hole for her . . . .

Today she is totally fine and milking like a champ. Her rear quarters got a bit salty for a day back in early June, but I separated the calf and milked her out 4x/day for two days, letting him strip those back quarters after I was done each time. 48 hours later, her milk tasted sweet and filtered great. I used LOTS of Vitamin E & C in her feed, and peppermint cream on her bag for weeks. My vet recommended NOT using antibiotics unless she became more clinical than she did. I recultured her late last month and her klebsiella results were 6cfu. I don't know if she'll ever NOT have the klebsiella organism, but it's not causing us any troubles so we're just going with it and not worrying about it.

I hate to admit it, but my dh was spot-on. I hope this helps put your mind at ease a little - I thought it was the end of the world for my Abbey girl, and she seems to be handling it fine so far.

[nightskyfarm]

Staph walls itself off within the mammary and re-emerges during times of stress. It is very hard to be rid off it completely. There is a vaccine for staph - Lysine.