D-1-0 *She's home!!!*

[sable]

After three years of dairy goats, my husband has suddenly come round to the idea of a milk cow. Why I do not know, but i'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. He said he'd like to get me one for Christmas, not necessarily actually at Christmas though, we may wait until the spring.

The first question I have is which breed? We live on a large cattle ranch in NM, but she will not be mixing with the beef cattle. There is plenty of grazing, but I think we'll keep her penned on hay when she's in milk so that we won't have off tasting milk.

I have narrowed it down somewhat. I know I absolutely do not want a Holstein or a Dexter. I want good rich milk that I can use for a variety of things including my homemade ice cream. We don't have a family, there's just the two of us.

I think my first choice would be a Guernsey, I am somewhat familiar with them after growing up in England. I have read about their calving ease in comparison to a Jersey, and thriftiness when grazing. Is this accurate in your experience? I also like the slightly larger size.

My second choice would be a Jersey. My concern with Jerseys is calving problems.

I'm also interested in Brown Swiss, I love their appearance but I think they may be too large and eat too much. I'm not a big person, and an 800lbs cow may be easier to deal with than a 1500lb one, although either could wipe me out if they wanted!

The other breeds are most likely too hard to find in this area and too expensive. I don't need a registered cow. The nearest dairy communities are 3-4 hours away as it is.

I think I want a cull cow rather than a calf or heifer. A top-of-the-range cow is too expensive. I think i'd be happy with an oldish cow that I could keep a heifer from to eventually replace her. The chances of me being able to ship an old cow are slim to none though, I just don't think I could do it. I don't want to wait 2 years for milk and then also run the risk of losing my heifer to calving, or find she won't settle. It would be nice to have a calf to handle a lot, but I think the pros of having a cow outweigh the cons. Would you agree?


We do have beef bulls (Red Angus/Longhorn/Gelbvieh), but I think i'd rather have her AI'd for a purebred calf. In very rough terms how expensive is this, and what is the price difference between sexed and non-sexed semen? Would it be within the realms of possibility to breed a Guernsey to one of our beef bulls?

Thanks so much!

[throwback]

I have had mostly Guernseys and chose to breed to our beef bull rather than go the AI route. The resulting cross calves make great cows, and/or beef. AI is great for a purebred calf, but can get expensive and frustrating with missed heats, and/or operator failure. But to get a purebred replacement you need to go AI, just maybe not every year.

As long as you get a healthy good natured cow to start with, it probably doesn't really matter what breed you get. Good family cows can be scarce.

[Claire]

I have a Guernsey and love her. However, they are hard to find and tend to be expensive when you do find one. Totally worth it in my opinion- do well in extreme temperatures, calve easily, wonderful creamy milk, sweet temperament as a breed, not too big to handle on your own.

Starting out with an experienced cow in milk is a very good way to learn the ropes of a family cow, especially since you'll be able to find out her history, milk production, and how she behaves at milking beforehand.

AI prices depend on your area and the AI tech. Sexed semen is generally used for first calf heifers because they tend to be more fertile. Using sexed semen also limits you on the number of bulls you can chose from. Last time I had the cow bred the AI tech was telling me about something called Heifer Plus (I believe) that is added in when you AI with regular semen and increases the chance of getting a heifer. They had only been using it a few months and were waiting to see how the first round of cows they tried it on did. Breeding a Guernsey to a beef bull would be fine- Herefords are a popular cross with Guernseys.

[Jenn]

I have not know jerseys to have caving problems...mine calved a beefmaster calf with ease. Guernseys are HUGE where I am and extremely dairy... not thrifty in my experience or locale. Jerseys are more likely to be in the 800 lb range. I am partial to the Brown Swiss temperament myself and they are less prone to MF than jerseys because their metabolism is a little different.

I think you may find breed differences on this side of the pond than what you are used to. There may be regional differences as well.

-Jenn

[sable]

Thanks so much for the advice. It is aggravating because I saw a Guernsey advertised locally about three weeks ago, before my husband mentioned us getting a milk cow. At the time I was surprised because I had assumed that there were few in the US and they we hard to come by. We have several dairy areas nearby (by our standards, within 200-300 miles) Clovis NM, Roswell/Artesia NM, and Lubbock TX, but all I had ever seen or heard about was Holsteins and the odd Jersey. I've since found out that tGuernseys really are hard to find around here, I wish I could find that old ad to see who it was selling her. I think I may have to place a wanted ad in that paper. I suppose one benefit of them not being too popular in this region is that they might not be so well known; most people wanting a milk cow think of a Jersey or Holstein, or sometimes a gentler beef cow.

Would it be reasonable to have a Jersey and AI her to a Guernsey bull for a replacement? I can't seem to find much about Guernsey/Jersey crosses. One benefit of this part of the world is that live cover breeding to a beef bull presents a variety of options, but we are already supplied with beef by the ranch and anything dairy-looking wouldn't sell too well. I would be curious to see how a home-raised steer would taste. The beef we get is corn finished and a lot greasier tasting than i'm used to. It's just hard to justify the cost of butchering for something we receive free of charge usually.

[Jenn]

Jersey meat is excellent, guernsey meat is good too...but a much higher bone to meat ratio. You can AI a jersey to a guernsey.
-Jenn

[nightskyfarm]

I just recently AIed my Jersey heifer to Guernsey and am looking forward to that calf; heifer or bull it doesn't matter. Guernsey meat is very good, some of the best I have ever tasted. Good Luck!

[njsparks]

I have a Jersey / Guernsey cross cow... she's 9 years old now and my absolutely favorite cow... ( I also have a purebred Jersey) Cookie is the best mom, great milk, excellent temperament, will foster anything that craves milk and gives great cow hugs!!! She pulls in a great winter coat compared to Sally the jersey and eats less even being a bigger girl.

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[rainyclayday]

I have both a Brown Swiss and a Guernsey and I would recommend either, I love them both. The Guernsey is small and I suppose easier to handle just because she is smaller. I think she is around 1000 lbs, not really positive, I've never checked. The Swiss in comparison is huge, not really stocky but just a lot taller. I can lead the Swiss around just as easily, sometimes easier than the Guernsey though, she is perfectly easy to handle. You just have to watch closer for her head swinging at the flies and don't get in her way as her head is large, lol.

The milk is fabulous from both. Sometimes I like the Guernsey milk better, sometimes I like the Swiss better. My absolute favorite is a mix of the two. In fact, we AI'd the Swiss to a Guernsey bull so I can have the mix without mixing (if we get a heifer, let's hope!).

As far as cost, Jerseys are cheaper around here but I don't care for Jersey milk so I just paid a little more for the kind of cow I wanted. They are both hard to find in this area. I think Guernseys are difficult to find no matter where you are, not sure about how easy to find a Swiss in other parts of the country.

So, bottom line, they are both awesome, plenty of cream from both too. Good, sweet, rich milk. I'd be perfectly happy with either. And on another note, we had an Ayrshire as a first cow and she was a great cow, delicious milk also. I'd take either of these three breeds, no problem at all.

Good luck on your search!

[Jerseylady*Heather*]

I have Jerseys a Guernsey and a Guernsey Jersey cross. All of them are very nice cows, and every cows milk is different even in same breeds you get variations of milk. The one thing that I have noticed about Guernseys is the guernsey has a gentle temperment. Even our Guernsey Jersey cross girl is very mild mannered. Easy sweet cows. Our Jerseys are very sweet but not as gentle. Guernseys are very hard to find, they cost more, So if you can find a gentle Jersey cow I think you would like her just as much as a guernsey. My Guernsey girl and my Jersey/Guernsey girl are both taller then my Jerseys but I would guess they are about the same weight. They definately have a lower meat to bone ratio then Jerseys. But that too can vary depending on the cow.
Good luck finding your perfect milk cow.
Heather

[susanhanna]

I grew up with jerseys, so that was my only frame of reference. We now have a brown Swiss calf who we just adore. She is the sweetest thing ever! Can't wait for her to grow up! Hopefully she's just as sweet at milking! Good luck and congrats on your husbands momentarily lapse of sanity:)

[jwaller]

I really like Jerseys. Good milk, good mothers, take foster calves well and the meat is the best.

That said, I would like to find a Guernsey but they are very hard to find. Seems Aryshire are impossible to find. And with fewer and fewer dairies around, it's not going to get any easier.

[sable]

Common sense is telling me what the answer to this question would be, but I thought i'd double check. Is a sale barn cow always a bad thing?

With beef cattle we're not at all hands-on, so what you see is what you get to a certain extent. However i'd imagine with a milk cow it's extremely important that she's easy to handle, and I doubt a sale barn will let you get hands on before purchasing. I'd imagine being in a stressful environment like that even the gentlest cow might not be on her best behaviour. The thought of battling a naughty cow twice daily doesn't appeal to me.

If a sale isn't a totally dreadful idea, is an old cow a better bet than a young one? My thinking would be that a young cow in a sale barn may be sterile or a raving lunatic, whereas an old one is more likely to be past her prime?

Getting rid of the old cow once I have a replacement is the hard part. My husband despairs, I gave away a 500lb pet steer because I didn't want him to go to the sale and end up on someone's plate. Obviously I can't justify a retirement home for old cows, but I think it would be difficult to part with an animal that you handle as much as a milk cow.

It's hard to get a realistic idea of prices with there being so much variability between regions. Last week there weren't any Jerseys at the sale, Holsteins were selling for 54 cents a pound but they averaged 1776lbs!! I did see a Jersey cow the last time I went (and like a little kid wished we could stay and see what she sold for), but she was a bit sad looking. Her tail was broken and she was an older girl. I'd like to spend $800-1000 for maybe an 8 or 10 yr old cow if that's possible. The only person i've seen selling them locally I know for a fact buys cows and horses cheaply at the sale then re-sells them. On the one hand it would be her risk because a private sale allows for closer examination, but i'm not sure I want to work with a dealer.

[Rhein-O-Ranch]

We have Holsteins, Jerseys, Brown Swiss and a Angus/Holstein cross.
The BS girls live up to their reputations of being gentle giants.
The Jerseys calve real easy but we have had milk fever problems in the past. We have found a feed supplement that has really helped with that problem.
We like the holsteins and BS girls the best for foster calving. They are taller and it is easier to get calves started and easier for the calves to nurse.
The Angstein is due to calve the end of January with her first calf. She has the sweetest temperament and we started her into our routine yesterday and she is doing great. This morning when we went to put the calves back out and they came around her and sniffed at her bag and she stood there and just let them nose around. So she seems like she is going to work great in our operation.
It really comes down to what you can find and what that cow is like.
Good luck with whatever you find.

[Jerseylady*Heather*]

One of our Jersey girls went through the sale and was going to go for meat, my husbands uncle knew we were looking for one so he called us before he shipped her. She has turned in to a really nice cow. She is 5 years old stands for hand milking. Has a nice udder, and had just freshened when we got her. She bred back easily and we are expecting a calf in February out of her. We kept her seperated from the other cows till we knew she was healthy. She is crazy about calves so we ended up mostly using her for a nurse cow, she will take any and all calves, and mothers and loves them all. She was perfect for what we were looking for. She sold for about 50 cents/lb She weighed about 900lbs and we paid $450 for her. But we were taking a risk. She could have had any number of things wrong with her we just got lucky and she turned out good.

[Lannie]

Nov 29, 2010 17:33:23 GMT -5 sable said:

There is plenty of grazing, but I think we'll keep her penned on hay when she's in milk so that we won't have off tasting milk.

I don't think anyone has commented on this yet, but I just want to say that if you have grazing during the summer, I'd let her graze first and decide later whether the milk tastes "off" or not. I realize I have different grass than you do, but we have mixed native prairie grass (and weeds) here and the milk while on grass is amazing. There's more cream, for one thing, and the butter breaks in a matter of minutes. During the winter when they're on hay, it will take anywhere from 1 to 2 hours of churning for the butter to break, and there's a quality to the finished butter that I don't particularly care for. It's "stiffer," more sticky, and doesn't like to melt as quickly. Plus it's not as yellow.

So don't waste your grass if you don't have to. You might find out you like the milk and associated by-products (butter, cheese, etc.) BETTER during the summer grazing season. And if you decide you don't like it after all, then you can decide to pen her and feed her only hay.

Congrats on being able to get a cow! For the record, I have two right now, one half Jersey and half Hereford, and her daughter, 3/4 Jersey and 1/4 Hereford. They're both excellent milkers (the daughter, Cricket, though, is my favorite!) and both produce very good, although different, milk. We've been breeding them to Angus bulls. Having a bit of beef breed in the cows has worked out well for us because of the harsh winters here, and they haven't had any of the dairy-related types of problems such as ketosis or milk fever. No mastitis or anything else for that matter, either. Easy keepers!

~Lannie

[rainyclayday]

I agree with Lannie, let her on the pasture for sure.

[Claire]

As a rule the sale barn is not a good spot to get a dairy cow unless you are very dairy cow savvy and can find out her history before buying her. Dairy cows are sent to the sale barn because of fertility issues, persistent mastitis, old age, disease, etc. Especially since this is your first dairy cow I would strongly recommend buying directly from someone so you can get the cow's full history and be sure you aren't buying a problematic animal.

[sable]

I received an e-mail tonight about a cow that might be what i'm looking for but needs a little TLC. Would any of you experienced dairy folk mind if I forwarded it to you to see what you think? I don't want to just go ahead and post it on a public forum.

[rainyclayday]

What kind of TLC? My advice would be to have her tested to make sure she is not sick, and avoid a cow with mastitis problems of any sort.