Ok I have a question about raw milk. Are any of you concerned about getting sick? I ask because I know some commercial dairies aren't as clean as small farm holders, but I also know some small farmers also don't keep their cows very clean. So what do you do? Do you inspect each farm holding you are considering? Just wondering. And to be completely honest I am writing a paper for college on this particular topic: Pasteurized vs. Unpasterurized. So any other suggestions or comments would be great. ;-)
Last Edit: Nov 1, 2010 21:43:56 GMT -5 by barnydhppy
Good for you Jen. Please read my reply to raw milk for infants.
I am not afraid of getting sick from a healthy cow. I have worked with hundreds of cows and I tell you that because of a very strange truth. Now this is hard to take, hard to stomach, so to speak but... it is true.
Get ready, sit down and don't get sick to your stomach (a mental thing)..... Cow POOP* does not make people sick. Horse poop*does not make people sick. (*from a healthy cow or horse) I have been in situations where I have fallen in vats of it, gotten some IN MY MOUTH and been better than fine, no sick at all, no stomach problems, not even a flatulence.
In fact experts who design manure and composting manure pits for mega livestock will attest to the fact that workers who fall into the pits do not get sick. AMAZING
What gets us sick is the idea. The mental gross-out. ... and that we believe that "germs make us sick" lie (over-simplification) we learned in Kindergarten*. (*Truth: Pathogens make us mount successful or unsuccessful war inside us, most microbes do nothing, and some pro-biotics are very beneficial to our living bodies.)
I am educated and experienced. My Grandfather was a Doctor who cured disease with raw milk from certified healthy cows. The medicine behind that was completely hidden by a decision by the drug and dairy cartels in the mid 1900's. A book, "The Untold Story of Milk" tells that story and is something you should use in your paper. by Ron Schmidt (I think)
When you write the paper THROW OUT the preconceived notions that you might have and start fresh. Know that those of us who have gotten over the fear of drinking that first raw milk, the, "oh am I gonna die" apprehension of that first raw milk yogurt (that was delicious!) have discovered a world of better health. -Sally McD
Last Edit: Dec 1, 2007 13:15:07 GMT -5 by sallymcd
(has been SallyMA, and SallyCA in prior years.)
Jen, to answer your question, the dairy we got our milk from is certified organic and milks about 80 head. 90% of their milk goes to an organic coop for pasteurization (yuck!) and resale in stores. But they do have cow shares available.
If the farm I were getting my milk from were smaller, not certified, etc. I would do a lot of research and ask to visit the farm at various times to make sure they had good practices and were open to visits. In my opinion, people who aren't open to such visits have something to hide and are worth being leary of.
Good luck with your paper. Check out the Real Milk webpage by the Weston Foundation. They have a lot of info and are how I got in contact with the people I got my milk from.
link verified: 3.1.11
Last Edit: Mar 1, 2011 20:25:10 GMT -5 by barnydhppy
As always the replies I get are very informed. It's not as if I am against raw milk because I'm not. My mom grew up on a dairy farm and I know that milk was unpastuerized. I actually came up with this topic because of Nina Plank's book: Real Food. So I kind of got hooked on this topic. Anyway the paper is for my .... wait for it.... infectious disease class. Now you know why I was asking about clean or dirty cows.
I know that California requires higher standards for milk that will be sold raw than it does for milk that will be for pastuerization. I would think they should be the same regardless but what do I know. I have been on the real milk website as well. In Ohio the only thing I've found so far is cheese that can be bought that is made from raw milk. That is also why I asked about the people a person would buy from.
I also stumbled on a site called Not Milk. As you can probably assume it is not favorable toward milk of any kind. Of course I have to read these things as well to make a balanced paper. As always thanks for everything.
You're very welcome. It is always good to get a balanced viewpoint - on anything. I started looking into raw milk mostly because we bought a heifer with the purpose of raising our own Jersey beef steers, however, I decided that I might as well try making cheese and butter...and in the process of researching that I started reading about raw milk.
The explanations of the standards for milk that is pasteurized kind of hit a chord in me, as I used to really enjoy drinking milk, but about 15 years ago it started really disgusting me. I believe it is because of what commercial cows are fed and how they are medicated.
I know that the raw milk I am drinking now does not cause that same feeling of revulsion. Anyway, that's my situation. Thanks for your curiosity. Karen
Since you are writing a paper about this subject, I highly recommend reading, "The Untold Story of Milk", by Ron Shmid. I read a while back about e-coli and rumen acidity. It was shown that when a cow is eating 10 pounds or more of grain per day, her rumen acidity level can go down to 5 or less. It is this level of acidity that e-coli will grow in. In a cow raised on pasture with under 10 pounds and especially 5 pounds or less, the rumen was closer to 7. It seems e-coli will not grow in that habitat. I would of course suggest clean milking, but if a little manure dust got into the milk from a mostly pastured, hayed cow it's not going to make you and your family sick. Good luck with the paper! Eden
Not Milk is a vegan site and starts with the premise that milk has lots of things wrong with it. By no means can it be considered a suitable source of facts. Should it be helpful to you, when provided with the actual references or abstracts from which Got Milk derives its assertions, I can point out where the research is flawed. The Not Milk site has little or no value as a source of balanced reporting. Their statements are emotion pretending to be science.
FDA/USDA/CDC/Departments of health warnings are very often similar in that thay use scare tactics to support a dogmatic posture. Most of their warnings will not withstand scrutiny.
Consider that most years there are zero deaths which by any diagnostic stretch can be attributed to raw milk. Those very few deaths which have in recent decades been attributed to raw milk, mostly from Listeria, cannot in my opinion be fairly blamed on raw milk, since contamination occured during processing. Currently, fresh vegetables are a more important source of illness.
Each year there are hundreds of thousands of severe illness caused by pathogens in other foods including pasteurized milk, and many deaths. The mere fact that so few warning are issued against, for instance, lettuce (which is seldom pasteurized) makes it obvious that the official position against raw milk is not founded in reason or science.
Advocates of raw milk can make many legitimate claims for its value besides superior taste. There are in fact stacks of studies demonstrating the health promoting properties of raw milk. True, most of these were done 80 years or more ago, there being no funding for current studies. Yet those were well conducted studies. As for studies showing that raw milk can transmit disease, I must point out that these studies too were done 80 or more years ago and many of these no longer apply in any way.
Anecdotal reports (personal testimonies) are not science. However when you get hundreds of people all reporting that their health improved when they switched to raw milk it becomes highly meaningful.
I personally think that considering the minor risks and the importance of freedom of choice that we have at least as much right to our cows and raw milk as is accorded to gun owners under the Second Amendment. I believe that if our Founding Fathers had any idea that government would abrogate to itself the right to tell people that they could not consume or sell healthy food products that they would have added another amendment. But how could they have thought of that? There is no historical precedence for for such governmental arrogance. There are examples from every historical period of governments taking away citizens' weapons for fear they would use them not against each other but against oppressive goverment. But telling people not to drink milk? It might be time for another amendment unless we can think of a way to crowd under the umbrella of the Second Amendment.
I believe that if our Founding Fathers had any idea that government would abrogate to itself the right to tell people that they could not consume or sell healthy food products that they would have added another amendment.
Joann, Thanks so much for putting into words the things I have been pondering about lately. I personally feel that the less government we have, the better, in other words, that government should stay out of our lives as much as possible.
Thanks a bunch for your input. I honestly paid no attention to raw milk until very recently and a local paper also did an article on small farmers and raw milk. The really interesting part in the article was that the farmer's at one point in time were not even allowed to drink their own milk. Now that is ridiculas. And I also agree the government is in our business entirely too much. The way this country is run now would have the founding fathers spinning in their graves.
mimisma: For some reason I can't view any of the pictures. Trying to get a good picture of a head bale. Would anyone know why I can't seem to view th pictures?
Jan 23, 2018 7:34:36 GMT -5
AZAmy: Wish I could help you with pics. I'm sure someone will chime in soon.
Jan 23, 2018 11:49:44 GMT -5
breezyridge: Same here. I'm looking for photos of homemade hay feeders suitable for 1-2 cows. The photos posted in old emails are not displayed-very sad
Feb 24, 2018 13:35:09 GMT -5
musicalmilking: Anyone want to make an offer on my two Dutch Belted cows? They are in the auction barn. I must sell them in March.
Feb 26, 2018 10:19:12 GMT -5
countrykrista: If i separate the 2 cows do you think they will calm down and not charge me once they get to know me?
May 25, 2018 17:15:36 GMT -5
claytonpaul: A bull was put on her herd Late Last May so she was expected to be due between May1 and August. They quoted me August so I wouldn't be disappointing by a late arrival.
May 23, 2019 13:07:11 GMT -5
Trim: I'm baaaaacccckkkk!
Aug 31, 2019 17:57:22 GMT -5
alpacalexi: My mini jersey cow is pregnant, however the last couple days her udder has deflated. My vet saw her on the 23 and said delivery in a couple weeks Is there a reason for her deflating?
Oct 2, 2019 17:17:00 GMT -5
Trim: She probably aborted a while back. That happened to one of my animals. She was bagging up but within a short while of her "due date" she began to deflate. I had no idea what had happened. I was seriously bummed out.
Feb 8, 2020 20:46:23 GMT -5
mamacherri10: good afternoon! I have not been on the website in a long time. Have a new jersey milk cow and am looking to see how long she needs to be dried up prior to calving? She is due the third week of May.
Mar 10, 2020 14:33:11 GMT -5
steven888: Dry her up now, she needs 6 wks of rest.
Apr 1, 2020 2:05:11 GMT -5
highlandteen: five to six weeks is generally suggested
May 7, 2020 14:39:23 GMT -5
biubiu: I think that CBD oil will be more popular. Because in is nice product for medicine and for simple guys.
Sept 15, 2020 14:31:42 GMT -5
guernseygirl: Can someone let me know if my pictures are showing up in the Auction Barn post? There should be 5 photos
Sept 20, 2020 20:58:54 GMT -5
wyatt: I treat cow s like people when doctoring.
Dec 15, 2020 22:54:52 GMT -5
ashlyn911: This is Fern! She’s an almost two year old heifer (Jersey/Brown Swiss). Her due date is Sunday.
Jun 17, 2021 0:49:56 GMT -5
hjp: Any tips on how to add a photo to a post?
Aug 24, 2021 18:13:11 GMT -5
correll17: We just purchased a dexter cox that is bred, due in April. We brought her home and was walking the fence, head butting the fence, so we got another dexter, now she is constantly headbutting her. Any ideas?
Sept 20, 2021 10:14:56 GMT -5
This book is intended as an inspirational manual for keeping a family milk cow. A lifetime of practical experience has been bound into one volume. Practical advice for the everyday and procedures for cow emergencies. Plus, answers to FAQ's like, 'Should you get a cow?' and 'How Much Space do I need?'