Feeding in a Drought/Sprouting Grains?

[mommaof10]

We live on 20 acres in the base of the Texas Hill Country and are experiencing a severe drought and excessive heat. We have not one blade of green anything growing right now and my poor Jersey is showing the effects of it.

In January when we brought her home, her cs was just a touch on the thin side, but not bad at all. She was a month from delivering. She stressed that first month and lost some weight. She calved and went into milk in February and lost a little more weight. All the while we worked on her feed to see what would best maintain her weight. She was thin but stable in her weight.

Then our family went on a vacation for 10 days and some very kind friends of ours cared for our animals. They did a great job. But between the stress of someone new milking her, the excessive heat and the drought with no fresh grass, she had definitely lost even more weight when we got home.

So now with our vacation, the heat and drought, her weight loss has taken her into what I feel is an uncomfortably thin state. I am guestimating that she went from a very good cs in January to about a 1.5-1.75 cs at present. It seems that no matter what we feed her she still loses more weight and condition and is milking off her back.

She is getting 4# oats, 4# barley, 2 handfuls BOSS, 2.5# beet pulp/day. We are slowly backing off some on the grains as there was some whole grain coming through in her poops. The chickens were happy : )

We mix chelated minerals, kelp and max-e-glo (rice bran/minerals/vit e for horses) for minerals. I have tried to stay away from soy but I broke down and just purchased some calf manna to start giving to her to try to stop her downward weight loss and hopefully put some weight back on. We're giving her 1#/day.

She is eating 1/2 bale of alfalfa/day which is approximately 35#/day. She is also eating 5# of sudan hay/day, which she loves.

She is 4 months fresh, calf weaned and giving about 2-3 gallons of milk per day, depending upon the heat. We're hosing her off in the hot part of the day to help alleviate the heat stress.

Would it be beneficial in this drought with no live greens for her to eat to start buying whole grains instead of crimped and sprout them in her milk? Would this make much of a difference nutritionally? Would there be any sprouts that would be more nutritious than others? I know I have access to whole oats, milo and corn around here.

Should I add some wheat germ or wheat germ oil to her diet? Anything else?

We need to get her bred, but she looks so thin, that I'm hesitant to try to breed her now.

I had a fecal count done last month with a perfectly clean result. So, I ruled out worms. She is free-ranging on 20 acres and there's no grazing to be done so I'm sure there's no new worm load since then.

Thanks for your input.

Mommaof10
PlymouthRockRanch.com
Recording the Faithfulness and Provision of God for Future Generations

[Jenn]

I would give her free choice hay. 40# is not nearly enough...unless she's really small. A dairy cow needs up to 5% of their body weight a day.
Sprouting grains might help digestibility, no personal experience with that. I wouldn't be backing off grain if she's losing weight....she needs the carbs.
How is her stool, has she ever been tested for Johnes?
-Jenn

[peacefulacres]

How about adding some molasses to her grain for weight and energy (I just found it in the dried form). Have you thought about a probiotic? I agree that sprouting will aid in digestibility but not sure about nutrients, except if she's digesting more she will obviously be getting more nutrition from them. I also would not back off on the grain. In my unexperienced opinion.....if she's giving you that much milk then she's getting enough nutrition....am I right here??? So possibly, she's a thinner cow??? I know some of the Jersey's are built that way. Can you ask the previous owner what her normal condition is like? I saw a Jersey recently at a cattle show and the farmer explained to me that her "build" was such because she was a big producer??? I don't know....I'm new at this.
Diane

[mommaof10]

She's probably around a medium sized 1,000 pound Jersey. So she's getting the 5% of feed per day with 40# of hay and 10 pounds of grain/beet pulp. Are you saying that she need 5% of her weight in hay/grass per day? My understanding of the 5% was their total feed (hays + grain) intake added together equaled the 5%. But maybe I misunderstood this.

She is eating all she wants at her milking times and sometimes leaving a little. I can't give her free feed hay as she is free ranging with our meat cow, who will eat any hay left out and doesn't need it at all. We are, however, starting to give her a midday flake of hay and keeping the meat cow away.

The only reason we've backed off the grain is because so much was coming through her whole. I had read on here that if there's grain coming through whole then you're feeding too much grain and to back off until you no longer see the grain in their poop.

I have spoken to the dairyman I bought her from. He wasn't concerned about her weight when I talked with him prior to our vacation. I asked about Johnes. He said in their family's 60+ years of dairying, they've never had a case of Johnes. She was bred and born there with our place being the only other place on earth she's been.

Her milk production is not the same at our place as it was at his. Her peak on the dairy was 6 gallons/day. Her peak here has been 4 gal/day. But, I know that we are not feeding the soy and cottonseed that he was feeding, so I didn't expect her to produce the full 6 gallons that she did on his feeding system.

I haven't tried adding molasses, but I can try adding that.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated!

Mommaof10
PlymouthRockRanch.com
Recording the Faithfulness and Provision of God for Future Generations

[mommaof10]

Oh, and besides some of the grain coming through whole, her stools are normal.

[Janene]

The 5% figure is the forages, meaning pasture/hay.
My cow will easily eat a whole 70# bale of hay a day...she is about the same size as your cow.
I know the drought and heat is super-tough on the milkers.....I know from when we lived in TX. I got a custom made 16% dairy mix for my cow, since I could not get alfalfa. (It had lots of alfalfa pellets in it. Holler if you need the mix ingredients.)
She was getting all the Bermuda hay she could eat a day (I left it out free choice..usually about a bale a day she'd consume-sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less) and was getting upwards of 18# of grain (split into two feedings) a day. I will note; I've not ever had to give her that much grain since then (even when she freshened here in the dead of c-o-l-d winter. It was just the on-going drought and heat taking so much out of her.

One thing I will stress (again) to everyone--don't limit a cow hay/pasture unless you need them to loose weight. This is what they literally need to live (and produce all that milk). Grain is just to help more or less to help keep the weight on them. Most milkers eat what they need (HAY!!), and don't "hog it all" or overfeed like people do. Edited to add: I mean the hay, not the grain! I wanted to clarify that after re-reading it this morning!!

If you don't want the beefer cow eating the hay, separate them until your milker has cleaned up her 'plate'. You might up the Sudan hay to half a bale for her a day to eat if its cheaper than the alfalfa...but I would not reduce the amount of alfalfa at all. (For me, I'd feed quarter a bale of each in the Am's and Pm's.)

Now, onto the feed, I've broken it down for you. With what you are currently feeding for grain, your average total protein content is running only about 11%, Toss in the manna, she is only getting like 12-12.5% since its such a lower pound amount than the lower protein feeds she is getting. She needs more like 16-18% protein.
The oats are about 12% protein, with zero fat. They are more for energy type of feed and high in fiber.
The Barley is about 11.5% in protein with about 2% being fat. Its another high fiber feed.
The Beet pulp is about 7% protein, again with not much fat and a great source of fiber.
The BOSS is her only source of fat--which runs about 25%, I would be upping that amount you are feeding her. It is high in protein (about 16%).

What happens is, when you feed lower protein grains, it pulls down the total protein/fat/whatever content of the high percentage stuff. She's getting lots of feed, just lower protein/fat grains. It's like feeding lots of spinach and lettuce, a piece of dry toast and tossing in a couple ounces of meat a day. The protein/fat just isn't there she needs.

How do I know all of this?? Crash course in learning just like what you are going thru.
Janene

PS This site might help you: www.ingredients101.com/alfpellet.htm

I can explain more if you need me to.....
Modified to clarify the sentence about the hay and the grain.....

[Lesli]

I am south east of you and just have to ask, how much are you paying for your alfalfa hay? We just saw some that we will be going to get soon at $13/100lb bale. I can not imagine feeding half a bale or more a day to one cow! I would have to say you really need to find another solution or she will bankrupt you! We have gone through drought before and we stretched alfalfa hay very thinly before and our cows made it through quite fine, we did have less expensive feed then prices have really gone up. The heat is bad, but unfortunately a dairy is not the best place to find a good high forage low grain cow. These cows are used to eating till their hearts content and quite a bit more grain than you have been feeding. One thing local dairies feed a lot of is silage, which is soured corn stalks, and it smells much like pickles. They love this and most dairies feed this unlimited. It is a harsh change for them coming off a dairy to be a house cow. You may have to feed her more grain, (feed crimped or ground up grain) if you still see it coming out the other end pay it no mind because they are still getting nutrients and fats out of it even if you see no change. Corn is a grain that goes more to condition than to milk, but you will see it coming out in the plops. I would set aside all the other feed temporarily and buy several bags of 21% breeder cubes maybe even the 26%. Give her 1 large coffee cans morning, noon, and night. They love it, oh and stop taking all the milk. You might try to slow down the production just a bit. You might have to keep careful watch as it is a fine line between slowing down her milk production and allowing mastitis to take affect.

I would switch the hay amounts and feed Sudan hay all she wants and supplement with 5-10lbs of alfalfa hay. I know you are probably feeling the pain the feed/hay cost, but what are you feeding your beef steer?
Do you have any pear cactus? IF you burn the spines off of the pair cactus the cows will just about knock you down to get to it. And it is green! It is extremely nutritious and according to all the old timers around here will guarantee 100% breed back results in a hungry heard of cattle. Are any mesquites growing on your land? What about hackberry trees? My cows stay rolling fat on mesquite beans and you can cut limbs off Hackberry trees and they are very nutritious feed and the cows love them, and it is green. You will have to feed her out of it and maybe give her a longer dry period so perhaps she can ease into the feed changes of dairy vs. family house cow.

I know this is contrary to what others have told you but they don't realize we don't have the same access to alfalfa hay as they do and the same prices. No one can tell you that you need to spend that much to feed a cow per day, it may be that the change is too difficult for her and you may need to do what is best for your family and sell her and find a cow that more easily suits your family situation. I would certainly try to impliments the changes that I mentioned first and see what you accomplish I only mention this because I live here and am going through what you have been going through and already done the trial and error. These are changes my vet suggested when my cow was ketotic. I had a dairy cow, she could not make the changes so quickly and she had other issues that made it all worse. She was a dairy cull and they call them that for a reason. If she was still perfect she would not have been sold. The only thing is the dairies keep them till 6 or 8 weeks dry off time and that is just not long enough for them to switch over just before calving. I wish you well and I hope your cow can make the change!

Lesli

[Janene]

Not all dairies feed silage, and not all cows are made the same. Some cows are wonderful milkers with little or no grain, just like some people are "beanpoles" and eat three times as much and do less physical work as chunky ol' me. Alot of it is in the genetics, the cow can't help it.
Some cows do great in the heat, but bring them north to the cold weather and they'd be having a hard time keeping weight on in the cold winters. Just like people, some can take the heat or cold better than others.


Lesli is wonderfully blessed to have what she calls "wash and wear cows" --they do great on her feeding regimen. I think our two cows are a bit of 'high maintenance'--meaning they are pre-programmed (genetics) to put more food into making more milk, not so much putting it on for weight. It's hard to change what is genetic and we have to learn to work with it.

We have to find the "happy balance" to what each cow needs....you can have two cows with totally opposite metabolisms. It takes some detective work on our part, AND I know it costs twice as much in hay/feed to try and get them BACK into a good weight while they are milking, but it is something that just has to be done.

I will say, for Dolly, it only took about a month of mostly pasture grass (and her being dry) to gain back her weight. (I sent her up to my brothers' by Seguin to get bred, and he had pasture [and above normal rain!!!] whereas I didn't only 90 miles away.)
Hopefully your rains will come soon and green things up!!
Janene

[mommaof10]

Lesli, Thank you for your input.

65-75# bales of alfalfa are going for around $11/bale coming straight from NM. I can purchase a 2000# bale for $250, which is cheaper, but my kids are not able to handle those large bales as easily, and I have to drive an extra 30 miles away to get them.

We were not planning on buying from a dairy. But this particular dairy came highly recommended from some on this list as well as others. A very reputable, kind, Christian man. He took us out to his herd and told us that almost every animal was for sale. He didn't pick out a cull for us. He spent much time with us going through his animals, telling us which ones he would not recommend either because he wasn't particularly happy with them or their production or their lines, or their personalities, and others that were his best animals/producers and their prices reflected it!

He didn't pressure us one way or the other. He walked us through all of their strengths and weaknesses. We went to his dairy two times. The first time we were overwhelmed with the 180+ choices! The second time we were better prepared. I asked him, having met our family with many children, our homestead situation, and our land, if he had any cows that stood out to him as good for our situation. He really hesitated to steer us in a direction but he finally did think of one cow that he thought was a good candidate for our needs. And, he truly was thinking of what our family was looking for and needed in a family cow.

He had pointed out a young heifer to us on our first visit. And he had pointed out a 5 year old cow that was his old faithful, but she had a bent leg due to an accident. Then he thought of old faithful's daughter, who was also mother to the young heifer. He said she was one of his most calm, tame, steady, good producers. But she was in his "troublemaker herd" that he didn't show us at first because he didn't want to sell us a trouble maker. But, she was in there only because she didn't like the pipe stanchion, so she had to be in the last group of milkers - the trouble makers.

We went through her production paperwork and her numbers were terrific.

She has been a wonderful cow. Very tame, one our children can easily handle, lovable, good milker, etc. She does seem to lose weight when under stress. She was on LOTS of green pasture, not your typical dairy, and good feed as well. What she's missing here is the green grass. We have 10 acres of pasture and 10 acres of rangeland. But, we have NO green grass right now due to this drought. Thus my question about sprouting grain to give her some living food.

As far as slowing her down, she does a good job at that as she is an expert milk withholder. We have to work to get the milk out of her! I am sure she still manages to with hold some.

In conclusion, I know she is not a cull. She was in the top 10% of this dairy's production. Yes, she is having to make some adjustments going from a dairy full of green grass to our drought stricken homestead. But, I know that where she came from is in the drought as well so she would be in the same parched land there as well.

We are just having to work to figure out how to get her through the heat and drought of this summer and not stress her anymore by going on vacation any time soon.

I am all ears for any suggestions and input. Thank you, Lesli.

Mommaof10
PlymouthRockRanch.com
Recording the Faithfulness and Provision to Future Generations

[mommaof10]

Janene, Thank you also for you input and advice. We are trying to figure out how to best feed our Phebie. Once we think we've got it figured out, she throws us another curve!

And, I have gotten conflicting advice here. We were feeding her more grains but then I read that what we were feeding was too much grain and we'd be facing founder or ketosis.

As for the protein, the alfalfa we're feeding is supposed to be between 16-18% protein. Shouldn't that be calculated into the protein amount? That's one of the reasons we're feeding as much alfalfa as we are instead of more sudan.

We were feeding alfalfa pellets, which were 18% protein. But, she just didn't seem to be doing well on the pellets. We decided to move back to afalfa hay when they started trucking it in again and she was so happy. She doesn't like the coastal hay, which I really can't blame her. It's so thin and lacks nutrition. She prefers the sudan over the alfalfa but I know the alfalfa is higher in protein so that is a main part of her diet.

I would separate the beef cow from Phebie if I could. Our one pen is full of male animals right now. We have another pen started but it isn't finished yet. The guys are slow on work right now so I'm hoping to get this job finished soon. Then I'll have more options for free feeding. Until then, we're feeding her a midday hay meal and standing guard for her to keep Maia away.

We'll up the BOSS, or should we add wheat germ oil? Which would be more nutritious?

Thank you for the feed nutrition breakdown. And thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

Hopefully soon, we will have this cow's needs figured out. I know that all people as well as cows have different needs. I have this thin 20 yo daughter that can eat with the best of them and still lose weight easily. And then there is me, who can eat nothing and not lose it. All of our metabolisms are so different.

I really think her main issue is the lack of available green grass. I can't sprout the crimped grains I have, so I will pick up some whole grains tomorrow and start her on sprouted grains and see if that plus the calf manna plus the midday hay feeding will help her out.

Thanks so much.

Mommaof10
PlymouthRockRanch.com
Recording the Faithfulness and Provision of God for Future Generations

[mommaof10]

Lesli,

The beef cow is eating a flake of hay morning and night to keep her away from the milking stanchion and Phebie's food and is as fat as can be. We have to watch to keep her out of Phebie's feed as she will bully her for it. So, we stay until Phebie eats until she's done and she sometimes leaves some, and then the beef cow will come finish it up.

We do have a few prickly pears but not enough for them to feed off of. We are mostly oak, cedar, fruitless persimmon and mountain laurel. We only have 2 mesquite trees on our property and they are on the road outside of the fence.

I'm feeding that much alfalfa for the protein. Neither sudan nor coastal/bermuda have as much protein. The cost is really high, I know. We were so hoping for green grass to alleviate this expense for awhile. But, the Lord has not seen fit to grant us good rains as this time.

I looked at breeder cubes at Tractor Supply a couple of days ago. The ingredients included soy, cottonseed and hydrogenated animal fats. I just couldn't make myself buy them. I bought the calf manna instead.

I've had a friend recommend the protein tub that TS sells as it helped one of their thin animals. But the smell of those just turns my stomach and one of the ingredients I read on one of the tubs was chicken feathers. I couldn't bring myself to purchase that either.

If I could find cubes without the animal ingredients, then I would buy it just to put weight back on her. But, I'm not willing to feed an herbivore animal fat.

So, if you have a supplier/brand that you know of that doesn't have the animal fat in them, please let me know!

Mommaof10
PlymouthRockRanch.com
Recording the Faithfulness and Provision of God for Future Generations

[Nonesuch Melissa]

I really do feel for your situation. We bought a Jersey in Bastrop last year that was wasted down to bones... there was just no grass anywhere. Having just dealt with a couple of months of brown crunchy grass and having to rely on what we could feed alone with record temps I was able to see how fast these conditions can take a toll.

As a thought, maybe you could put out a round roll of Coastal or Jiggs hay and allow her and the beefer to eat that free choice. She can pick in the cool of the evenings or the very early morning when she is not getting her regular feedings and every little bit adds up. If you do be sure to put it in the shade in a place that she is likely to hang out when it is hot. Also cows need enough roughage to use those grains so some extra hay might very well help with that. If you are not feeding yeast it has been shown to improve digestibility of other feedstuffs and would make more of her calories available to her.

I have used Janean's custom feed formula for a very thin Jersey who was getting that, grass hay, a little alfalfa and minerals and managed to gain a good amount of weight on it so get her to send it to you and have a peek.

I get the not wanting to feed utter grossness like chicken feathers and tallow but some roasted soy beans might be a nice addition for added protein which will go more to body condition and not just to more milk. Or for more digestibility ground soy. I love the idea of grass fed animals but I have found that if the genetics are not there you may have to set ideals aside and feed what she needs or get used to looking at a very thin cow. In example my 800 lb thin Jersey ate 18 pounds of 18% soy and corn based dairy mix along with alfalfa and grass hay, the biggest reason she now lives elsewhere. She was just wired to need a lot of food.

If you have a garden fresh garden overflow and cornstalks, bean plants, etc. make nice additions to the daily diet and add interest and calories and interest can be a big factor when it is so hot and your cow just doesn't care that much about eating. I think sprouting would be a grand idea if you can do it in large enough quantities to make a difference.

Most of all I hope you get rain soon... and green grass... this has been a trying time for many with livestock and that is really the only sure cure.

[mommaof10]

Melissa,

Thank you for your thoughts. We were originally giving her coastal hay instead of sudan. She just wouldn't eat it well at all. When we got the sudan, she went nuts over it. She pulled the bales of sudan off the truck and left the alfalfa before we could get it unloaded. I may be able to find a fresh round bale of sudan now, but when I tried a couple of months ago when the square bales were first being harvested, the only round bales were old. I could ask if there are any round sudan bales available now.

I am willing to give her the soy and cottonseed if I must, just not the animal products. I have a bucket of soybeans that someone gave me that I know I will not use for our family. Does anyone know how to roast those so they are safe for Phebie's consumption? I have a grinder that I can crack or grind them in too.

I think our local feedstore had some cottonseed ranch cubes without the animal products. Would cottonseed be of help to her? I've tried to stay away from that because of the pesticides used on cotton, but I'm grasping here.

I wish I had a garden, but we haven't got the fence up to keep the animals out yet. Limestone rock makes it very difficult to get fences in here : ( It really holds us back from progressing quickly. But, if I did have a garden, most everybody's gardens here are scorched by the drought and excessive heat. So, unfortunately, I don't have any garden scraps to give her.

Rain......we really need consistent rain.........and cheaper hay prices! 10 bales of sudan and 10 bales of alfalfa cost me $180 last week!

Mommafo10
PlymouthRockRanch.com
Recording the Faithfulness and Provision of God for Future Generations

[Lesli]

I would not buy from TS, but find a good grain mill, Where are you exactly. The cubes I cannot guarantee do not or will not have soy or cottonseed meal. I have found that we could avoid feeding the less desirables to my cows but then, they would be starving and too thin for my taste. My desire to do what is best for the cow outweighed my notions. I truly believe that organic soy free is best but I am not such a stickler that I would let my cow starve first. You are willing to spend upwards of $10 a day, that is more than I can afford, but if you can that is great, lucky cow, but she does need more grain and manna and BOSS, although there are some that have trouble with the BOSS hulls. Oh, are they organic BOSS? because I think that they are heavily treated with pesticides if they are not organic. My husband made me stop with the BOSS because they sprouted in the poop and added to our weed problem. The thing about the sunflower seed hulls and plants coming up is they inhibit sprouting of other more beneficial forage when it does start raining. and they are expensive! Mesquite beans will sprout too and that is an annoyance to me, but they are super nutritious and super high in protein. You need to stop beating your self up if you can not provide what would be "perfect" diet. There are obvious preferences and some you may have to settle for.

I only wish to help, not offend in any manor. I am just trying to extend my personal experiences. I have had a cow similar to yours and she was a cull from a dairy. She was eating 25lbs of grain a day till she got ketosis but not from eating too much grain. I think you were thinking that she can founder and develope acidosis. A ketotic cow refuses grain usually only wants grass and grass hay. I ended up culling her from my herd and I cried, her name was Sweet Pea, but I finally decided that I could not do her any good nor my family. My other two cows are wash and wear cows, that is how I know they are out there. They are not rolling fat right now, our mesquites don't have many beans right now, but they do look good, and I can only attribute that to the breeder cubes as our hay is not excellant, but we cannot pay so much. We are fixing to go back to what we did a few years ago and start feeding alfalfa hay again till we can afford the grass hay again. We are very guarded and restrict the alfalfa to what they need to survive, and feed cactus and the m. beans will be coming on soon hopefullly. I am worried because we have had sooo many hackberry trees to die, and our cows and goats love hackberry leaves. I will look at our breeder cube ingredients and let you know about the animal fat. We are 20 miles south of Gonzales.
Lesli

[Nonesuch Melissa]

I guess my mind just goes to those grasses as they are what are commonly fed here. I have never met a cow or horse that, when hungry, would not eat them... and they are cheap at $50-60 per 1,500 pound roll. At that price waste can be used for bedding without shedding tears. Really any grass hay that is cheap enough for you to just put it out and not have to worry about the beefer eating it or the cows tromping it is the goal if you can't separate.

Cows can pick the weirdest times to eat... and we can't always be right there to feed when the temp drops a few degrees or the barometric pressure is on the rise or the moon is full or whatever makes them HUNGRY. On full moon nights I have found my cows at the hay ring at 2 am (well DH has found them... he works second shift, I am sleeping).

And to soy or not to soy is another question.... it is a cheap food source for animals. I eat soy, Edamame is downright delicious, and I feed my animals soy... not as a main staple of their diet but as a feed stuff that has protein value balanced with other healthy foods. Only you can choose what is best in your situation...

Your situation is certainly unique and I applaud you for being resourceful in finding solutions to what has to be a difficult problem. I think that your love for your cow is shown here and I know that you are doing all you can. It is hard to feel that your best may not be good enough and I am sure her continued weight loss despite all you are doing is disheartening. I pray that you find a solution soon and again mostly I pray that rain fall where you are.

[Nonesuch Melissa]

And here is a link to roasting soy beans.

www.ehow.com/how_2309937_roast-soybeans.html

[Lesli]

Can you get Ful-o-pep feeds up there? Well here is their ingredients list for breeder cubes if you scroll to the bottom it is a 35% so you could feed less of it( so it would be less expensive) and has no animal fat listed in the ingredients

www.fulopep.com/breederandrangecubes.html

Although reading descriptions I am thinking that the super breeder may be more useful for your cow and at a little higher rates than they list here for beef cows. Because of the higher energy level for times of stress. I think that would help your cow more.

[crowinghen]

Just a quick thought here- ( it may have been covered in another post, but I haven't read through all the info here)

a 20 percent protein tub will be less likely to have the junk in it than the 30 percent. It will encourage her to eat the less than desireable hay that you can get ( coastal? am not familiar with those grasses) thi is what I did one winter when I had some hay that was not the greatest-- my favorite tub was Big M or something that sounded like that-- my cows wintered great with that( they were pregnant and came out of the winter sleek and shiney with great calfs)

I know they do so much better with green grass it's amazing isn't it!

just my thoughts--
susie

[Janene]

Yes, the alfalfa (depending on the quality) can run anywhere from 13-16% on average (I've seen higher and lower numbers, depends on lots of factors). BUT the Sudan will bring that percentage down, since it's not as high in protein averaging 8-12%. Each cutting of hay (no matter what kind it is) will vary on the protein content.

Unless it it tested, we just go by averages. Some batches can run higher on the protein content, and some much, much lower. It all depends on the weather, how much water, heat, drying time, cut before/after bloom/seeding, etc, no matter if its the alfalfa or the Sudan.
I came across this: www.oces.tulsacounty.org/docs/TestingHayforProtein.pdf
and this: msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is1012.htm
to explain it all (better than me).
Janene

[Janene]

I ran across this old discussion in the Tree of Knowledge, some interesting reading: familycow.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=grain&action=display&thread=11550

and this about sprouting grains: familycow.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=grain&action=display&thread=12035

There is more stuff to read thru if you're bored: It's the Everything Grain section about halfway down the page (thanks to Rena's hard work!!)
familycow.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=grain&field=ordertime&order=desc&page=3
Janene