Post by etomaria on Dec 1, 2023 12:30:17 GMT -5
Hello!
I think this is my first post, and hope it is forgivable that so far I have only benefitted from your forums versus contributing anything myself. (I don't have enough experience to help anyone yet!)
Anyway, I have been working with our vet, here and there consulting acquaintances who have combined five decades of grazing dairy cow experience, others who have commercial dairies.. everyone seems stumped. So I thought I'd ask you guys.
History: 4-yr-old Jersey cow whom we bought in April. She had previously calved in September and was giving 4 gallons a day. She had her entire life been on grass and hay with three or four pounds of grain thrown down at milking. We continued this, along with a selenium salt/mineral block. Dried her off 1 August as previous owners expected her to calve at the end of August (they hadn't seen her bred, she was in with their bull, but that was their idea). Welllllll, she calved 1 November! Little Jersey-Hereford bull calf. Calved on her own, no issues, placenta delivered three hours later, appeared whole. Nursed/stood well, cleaned up the calf, all well. We milked her that day for a quart of colostrum, that evening whatever she'd give (not much). We tried morning and evening milkings for two days but the morning one was utterly useless, nothing. So we continued a few days of evening milkings only where she gave us maybe a quart or so each time. Then when the calf was six days old, we separated them at morning chores (730) and kept them separated (but nuzzling distance, via a four-ft-high fence/gate) til 1930 when we milked and let them be back together til morning. She gave us 1-2 gallons per evening milking, mostly 1.5 though. We did this til he was three weeks old. Her diet at this point was all the hay she wanted, same mineral block, threeish pounds of oats after milking, and whatever kelp she'd eat (not much, she doesn't seem to care for it). One Monday morning I went out to separate them and give hay and water and such, and she wouldn't get up. Tried several times, couldn't get her legs under her.
From there:
Monday AM (/Sunday night sometime): went down, gave 1 bottles of calcium via IV, half a bottle subcutaneously, called vet, vet suggested calcium, expressed doubt she'd ever get back up; normal temp, normal tissue colors, chewing her cud, eating hay voraciously when we bring it to her, ignoring water, alert, ears up and listening all over, normal behavior except she cant get up, no neck curve, nothing appears broken, no bulls or other large animals to have mounted her, ketosis declared unlikely due to behavior and appetite
Monday midday/PM: vet suggests selenium injection and some other thing I forget the name of but for inflammation, also bottle of dextrose via IV tonight and tomorrow morning, we give both injections and one bottle of dextrose via IV ('just in case indeed ketosis, can't hurt'), also three pounds of oats with molasses (1cup), glycerin (1cup), and 4oz ACV as per experienced dairy acquaintances (she's a grazier of about 100 head, he is a vet with organic dairy experience)
Tuesday AM: second bottle of dextrose, same oats/glycerin/molasses/ACV concoction with a couple ounces of kelp cuz why not. Roll her onto her side to let the calf nurse about fifteen minutes. Mentally confirm calves are certainly no respecters of persons. Cow (Elsie) still negligent of water but drinks a little. Still giving hay.
Tuesday PM: Another bowl of said concoction (ACV only in the AM though), SHE IS UPPPPP!! Drinks a good bit, eating hay. Vet pleasantly surprised, no ideas for maintenance, as 'really does not know what the cause was for all this.. keep giving grain mixture, shouldn't need more than five pounds a day, cows eat grass and hay.'
Wednesday AM: Another bowl.
Wednesday daytime sometime: Back down, jeez. Why.
Wednesday evening: another bowl, still hay and water of course. Let calf nurse.
Thursday (Thanksgiving!) AM: Down when I give bowl of carbs, up by the time I've done duck and chicken chores, yayy!!
Thursday PM: Down. Again. Bowl of carbs. (&hay&water)
Friday AM: Still down. Bottle of dextrose via IV, bowl of carbs. Let calf nurse.
Friday midday: Up for a while.
Friday PM: Bowl of carbs, at some point back down.
Saturday AM: Down still. Bowl of carbs, let calf nurse.
Saturday midday: Bottle of dextrose via IV.
Saturday PM: Bowl of carbs. Let calf nurse.
Sunday AM: She's up! Bowl of carbs.
Sunday PM: Bowl of carbs, dextrose IV. Start bringing her six gallons of warm water with her bowl of carbs. She appreciates this and drinks more.
Monday AM: Back down. Bowl of carbs.
AND Tuesday-Friday (today), up and down when she wants, averaging half the day up, half down. Bowl of carbs AM & PM.
Blood drawn Wednesday, dropped Thursday. Today vet said blood counts are good, but blood sugar and phosphorus are low. Suggests drenching half a bottle of phosphorus for the next eight days. Suggests continuing the glycerin (which we've never stopped). Not sure what else to say.
Oh and we gave her a magnet Thursday, just in case. She was preferring to eat her hay from the ground vs the hay crib and also looked slightly tucked when indeed eating from the crib.
Last weirdo thing, Thursday midday she showed up at our front door (I'd taken down the polywire temporarily thinking the snow and her health would prevent wandering) and one of the kids had left the outer entryway door open, to where I had a stockpot of chicken stock in the cold til I could can it.. well she drank three gallons of it! Acquaintances suggest this means she needs minerals. Planning to order good quality loose minerals but for now offering Manna Pro goat minerals because we have them.
Manure towards the beginning of this was rather stiff, is now slightly on the firm side but not as much as it was. Rumen triangle is generally mostly filled, one day seemed sunken some. Will attempt to attach photos.
Any ideas here? Keep on with the carbs and phosphorus as the vet suggests and hope all straightens itself out? Anything we're neglecting?
Hay is local, first (and only) cutting, grass and some weeds with some timothy. She's been eating it since maybe June (much less as she was grazing almost all her diet; became most of her diet as of September). Haven't milked her since she went down. No mastitis that we can see. Normal temp throughout all this. We're wayyyyy up in Michigan's upper peninsula by Lake Superior, about ten miles south of it as the crow flies.
Not sure what else to add.
Thank you to anyone taking the time to read my novel and suggest anything!
Maria (&Elsie)
I think this is my first post, and hope it is forgivable that so far I have only benefitted from your forums versus contributing anything myself. (I don't have enough experience to help anyone yet!)
Anyway, I have been working with our vet, here and there consulting acquaintances who have combined five decades of grazing dairy cow experience, others who have commercial dairies.. everyone seems stumped. So I thought I'd ask you guys.
History: 4-yr-old Jersey cow whom we bought in April. She had previously calved in September and was giving 4 gallons a day. She had her entire life been on grass and hay with three or four pounds of grain thrown down at milking. We continued this, along with a selenium salt/mineral block. Dried her off 1 August as previous owners expected her to calve at the end of August (they hadn't seen her bred, she was in with their bull, but that was their idea). Welllllll, she calved 1 November! Little Jersey-Hereford bull calf. Calved on her own, no issues, placenta delivered three hours later, appeared whole. Nursed/stood well, cleaned up the calf, all well. We milked her that day for a quart of colostrum, that evening whatever she'd give (not much). We tried morning and evening milkings for two days but the morning one was utterly useless, nothing. So we continued a few days of evening milkings only where she gave us maybe a quart or so each time. Then when the calf was six days old, we separated them at morning chores (730) and kept them separated (but nuzzling distance, via a four-ft-high fence/gate) til 1930 when we milked and let them be back together til morning. She gave us 1-2 gallons per evening milking, mostly 1.5 though. We did this til he was three weeks old. Her diet at this point was all the hay she wanted, same mineral block, threeish pounds of oats after milking, and whatever kelp she'd eat (not much, she doesn't seem to care for it). One Monday morning I went out to separate them and give hay and water and such, and she wouldn't get up. Tried several times, couldn't get her legs under her.
From there:
Monday AM (/Sunday night sometime): went down, gave 1 bottles of calcium via IV, half a bottle subcutaneously, called vet, vet suggested calcium, expressed doubt she'd ever get back up; normal temp, normal tissue colors, chewing her cud, eating hay voraciously when we bring it to her, ignoring water, alert, ears up and listening all over, normal behavior except she cant get up, no neck curve, nothing appears broken, no bulls or other large animals to have mounted her, ketosis declared unlikely due to behavior and appetite
Monday midday/PM: vet suggests selenium injection and some other thing I forget the name of but for inflammation, also bottle of dextrose via IV tonight and tomorrow morning, we give both injections and one bottle of dextrose via IV ('just in case indeed ketosis, can't hurt'), also three pounds of oats with molasses (1cup), glycerin (1cup), and 4oz ACV as per experienced dairy acquaintances (she's a grazier of about 100 head, he is a vet with organic dairy experience)
Tuesday AM: second bottle of dextrose, same oats/glycerin/molasses/ACV concoction with a couple ounces of kelp cuz why not. Roll her onto her side to let the calf nurse about fifteen minutes. Mentally confirm calves are certainly no respecters of persons. Cow (Elsie) still negligent of water but drinks a little. Still giving hay.
Tuesday PM: Another bowl of said concoction (ACV only in the AM though), SHE IS UPPPPP!! Drinks a good bit, eating hay. Vet pleasantly surprised, no ideas for maintenance, as 'really does not know what the cause was for all this.. keep giving grain mixture, shouldn't need more than five pounds a day, cows eat grass and hay.'
Wednesday AM: Another bowl.
Wednesday daytime sometime: Back down, jeez. Why.
Wednesday evening: another bowl, still hay and water of course. Let calf nurse.
Thursday (Thanksgiving!) AM: Down when I give bowl of carbs, up by the time I've done duck and chicken chores, yayy!!
Thursday PM: Down. Again. Bowl of carbs. (&hay&water)
Friday AM: Still down. Bottle of dextrose via IV, bowl of carbs. Let calf nurse.
Friday midday: Up for a while.
Friday PM: Bowl of carbs, at some point back down.
Saturday AM: Down still. Bowl of carbs, let calf nurse.
Saturday midday: Bottle of dextrose via IV.
Saturday PM: Bowl of carbs. Let calf nurse.
Sunday AM: She's up! Bowl of carbs.
Sunday PM: Bowl of carbs, dextrose IV. Start bringing her six gallons of warm water with her bowl of carbs. She appreciates this and drinks more.
Monday AM: Back down. Bowl of carbs.
AND Tuesday-Friday (today), up and down when she wants, averaging half the day up, half down. Bowl of carbs AM & PM.
Blood drawn Wednesday, dropped Thursday. Today vet said blood counts are good, but blood sugar and phosphorus are low. Suggests drenching half a bottle of phosphorus for the next eight days. Suggests continuing the glycerin (which we've never stopped). Not sure what else to say.
Oh and we gave her a magnet Thursday, just in case. She was preferring to eat her hay from the ground vs the hay crib and also looked slightly tucked when indeed eating from the crib.
Last weirdo thing, Thursday midday she showed up at our front door (I'd taken down the polywire temporarily thinking the snow and her health would prevent wandering) and one of the kids had left the outer entryway door open, to where I had a stockpot of chicken stock in the cold til I could can it.. well she drank three gallons of it! Acquaintances suggest this means she needs minerals. Planning to order good quality loose minerals but for now offering Manna Pro goat minerals because we have them.
Manure towards the beginning of this was rather stiff, is now slightly on the firm side but not as much as it was. Rumen triangle is generally mostly filled, one day seemed sunken some. Will attempt to attach photos.
Any ideas here? Keep on with the carbs and phosphorus as the vet suggests and hope all straightens itself out? Anything we're neglecting?
Hay is local, first (and only) cutting, grass and some weeds with some timothy. She's been eating it since maybe June (much less as she was grazing almost all her diet; became most of her diet as of September). Haven't milked her since she went down. No mastitis that we can see. Normal temp throughout all this. We're wayyyyy up in Michigan's upper peninsula by Lake Superior, about ten miles south of it as the crow flies.
Not sure what else to add.
Thank you to anyone taking the time to read my novel and suggest anything!
Maria (&Elsie)