Post by Becky on Mar 20, 2011 2:48:08 GMT -5
Heather, I looked up the Normasol R and it seems to me that it is very similar to LRS.
Normasol R :
Electrolytes per 1000 mL (not including pH adjustment):
Sodium 140 mEq;
potassium 5 mEq;
magnesium 3 mEq;
chloride 98 mEq;
acetate 27 mEq;
gluconate 23 mEq.
Lactated Ringers:
• 130 mEq of sodium ion = 130 mmol/L
• 109 mEq of chloride ion = 109 mmol/L
• 28 mEq of lactate = 28 mmol/L
• 4 mEq of potassium ion = 4 mmol/L
• 3 mEq of calcium ion = 1.5 mmol/L
Aren't gluconate and lactate kind of the same thing? I do like the mag in the normasol as it would make the calcium more available, but wouldn't it at the same time increase the potential for loose stools?
As far as getting volume into a calf, I will agree that IV is ideal, but I have had total success with going sub Q, and yes, putting 1000mls in one spot. If you sit and rub/pet/ work the fluid it is a piece of cake. I have run up to 2000mls subQ. On that particular calf I ran 500 mls on each side of his neck, and 500 low/behind each shoulder. If they need fluids, then they aren't feeling too perky and I just walk up, sit down next to them, and one little poke, and fluids are running in. No stress, no shoving anything down their throats, no fighting with the bottle. Dextrose should NOT be run SubQ. I *have* done it, and have been lucky and not had a single problem with it, BUT I am very aware of the risks, and only do it when I think it is REALLY needed. Haven't done it in a year or so......
Amanda, personally, I prefer to get the electrolytes in them Sub Q or IV. My reasoning with this is that I can hit them with a 1000mls of electrolytes, and immediately before I leave the pen give them a bottle. There isn't the "wait time" between the electrolytes and the milk as the electrolytes/fluids aren't entering the stomach and interfering with the absorption of the milk. So, with no more fuss than giving the little dude a 2 quart bottle, I have just essentially loaded him up with 3 quarts of useable nutrition and electrolytes. Now, bear in mind that I am talking about a calf that is still doing OK, but is on the skids. I tried the oral electrolytes and I just felt that those little tummies just don't do well with cramming 2 or 3 gallons of fluid in them a day. The subQ/IV just reduces the stress on the gut. Just me, though, and it has worked extremely well for me in the last couple of years.
I am really interested in this Normasol stuff, but unless it is OK for people, I probably won't use it. I am too much of a tight wad to have fluids for the animals and a different type for people. In having one type I can keep everything rotated and "in" dated. I realize that is not a concern for most folks, but it is huge for me as if I am injured at work, I am on my own, literally, and am quite often 4 hours from any sort of communications and dealing with "widow makers", hung trees, chain saws, cables, etc. I have a rather intense first aid kit and fluids and a line are essential. And yes, it saved my bacon on one occasion.
Becky
Normasol R :
Electrolytes per 1000 mL (not including pH adjustment):
Sodium 140 mEq;
potassium 5 mEq;
magnesium 3 mEq;
chloride 98 mEq;
acetate 27 mEq;
gluconate 23 mEq.
Lactated Ringers:
• 130 mEq of sodium ion = 130 mmol/L
• 109 mEq of chloride ion = 109 mmol/L
• 28 mEq of lactate = 28 mmol/L
• 4 mEq of potassium ion = 4 mmol/L
• 3 mEq of calcium ion = 1.5 mmol/L
Aren't gluconate and lactate kind of the same thing? I do like the mag in the normasol as it would make the calcium more available, but wouldn't it at the same time increase the potential for loose stools?
As far as getting volume into a calf, I will agree that IV is ideal, but I have had total success with going sub Q, and yes, putting 1000mls in one spot. If you sit and rub/pet/ work the fluid it is a piece of cake. I have run up to 2000mls subQ. On that particular calf I ran 500 mls on each side of his neck, and 500 low/behind each shoulder. If they need fluids, then they aren't feeling too perky and I just walk up, sit down next to them, and one little poke, and fluids are running in. No stress, no shoving anything down their throats, no fighting with the bottle. Dextrose should NOT be run SubQ. I *have* done it, and have been lucky and not had a single problem with it, BUT I am very aware of the risks, and only do it when I think it is REALLY needed. Haven't done it in a year or so......
Amanda, personally, I prefer to get the electrolytes in them Sub Q or IV. My reasoning with this is that I can hit them with a 1000mls of electrolytes, and immediately before I leave the pen give them a bottle. There isn't the "wait time" between the electrolytes and the milk as the electrolytes/fluids aren't entering the stomach and interfering with the absorption of the milk. So, with no more fuss than giving the little dude a 2 quart bottle, I have just essentially loaded him up with 3 quarts of useable nutrition and electrolytes. Now, bear in mind that I am talking about a calf that is still doing OK, but is on the skids. I tried the oral electrolytes and I just felt that those little tummies just don't do well with cramming 2 or 3 gallons of fluid in them a day. The subQ/IV just reduces the stress on the gut. Just me, though, and it has worked extremely well for me in the last couple of years.
I am really interested in this Normasol stuff, but unless it is OK for people, I probably won't use it. I am too much of a tight wad to have fluids for the animals and a different type for people. In having one type I can keep everything rotated and "in" dated. I realize that is not a concern for most folks, but it is huge for me as if I am injured at work, I am on my own, literally, and am quite often 4 hours from any sort of communications and dealing with "widow makers", hung trees, chain saws, cables, etc. I have a rather intense first aid kit and fluids and a line are essential. And yes, it saved my bacon on one occasion.
Becky