Post by eric on Mar 24, 2008 13:14:11 GMT -5
I just read this thread and found several questions I might be able to offer some answers to.
Catherine, you asked if equipment would still be contagious after 20 years. The answer is yes, but the hive may not have had an American foulbrood problem in the first place. American foulbrood (AFB) is the only disease problem that can survive any length of time in a dead hive. The only two ways I know to disinfect for AFB are ethylene dioxide fumigation in a pressure chamber and radiation. What that means for me is that if I find AFB, I burn it. As for whether or not to buy used equipment, there's just that risk that you'll wind up burning it all. If you can get it cheap enough and run that risk, and so long as you're not co-mingling that stuff with a bunch of other new, expensive equipment, you might consider it, but most used stuff has other problems: either it wasn't made to exactly the standard dimensions in the first place, or it's about ready to retire, or it contains residues from chemical treatments (legal or illegal), etc. Especially as a beginner, I'd probably stay away from any used hive parts, ESPECIALLY used combs (where the bees raise their young and store honey, etc.) I really wouldn't worry at all about diseases with other equipment, though, for example: smokers, veils, helmets, coveralls, extractors, books...
As for the number of bees in a hive, there's no practical way to count them, so I think talking about the number of bees in a hive is generally more confusing than useful. For practical purposes, you could talk about the number of pounds of bees (in a package or a swarm) or the number of frames of brood or the number of frames covered with bees (in a hive or nuc=nucleus colony=small/starter hive.)
Two hives is probably a good idea. It will cost a little bit more, but you'll have a point of comparison, you might be able to use one hive to help deal with a problem in the other, and you won't have to start completely from scratch if something happens to one hive. Definitely expect to lose hives. Big commercial beekeepers certainly add stresses to their colonies, but I've talked to thousands of hobby beekeepers, and the average hobbyist loses around 50% of his hive every 12 months. There's no magic, easy answer to defying that (estimated) statistic. The good news is you can multiply your colonies even faster than that average mortality rate. In other words, if for example you lose half your hives over the winter, you could pretty easily multiply out your remaining colonies to restore your numbers and then possibly double your number twice over again and wind up with four times as many hives a year later despite the 50% loss. Of course, there's work in all that.
It's definitely not too late to start with bees this year. It's probably too early for most of the US to actually start; the trouble is going to be finding a source of bees. A lot of suppliers will be booked up already. At this point, folks may fare better trying to deal with a local beekeeper, at least for the bees (as opposed to the woodenware, equipment, etc.) The safest route to go, and what I would probably recommend is either a natural swarm or a "package" (a.k.a. a "shook swarm" or an "artificial swarm".) I say safe, because with a swarm or package you're not getting any wax comb, and that's where you pick up the greatest risk of foulbrood contamination, not to mention nasty chemical residues which could interfere with the performance of the bees or even get transferred to you honey. Also varroa mites, which are a serious problem -- one that every hive in the lower 48 has to deal with to one degree or another -- are going to be much more numerous in a nuc or established hive than in a package or swarm (because they spend most of their time in the brood cells multiplying). Starting off with a lower varroa mite load will make things easier on you, even though you'll have to deal with them sooner or later anyways.
As for "small cell," I think it's a bunch of foolishness. Formal university research continues to debunk the theories, most recently Jennifer Berry's research at the University of Georgia. Most of the people that use "small cell" for varroa mite control are doing other things, too (most notably using "survivor" genetics and even Africanized bees="killer bee" crosses), and those other things, I would say, are the reason they're having whatever success they are. I think a lot of "small cell" proponents are very misleading in the way they promote their theory, so I'd offer a heavy word of warning. There are lots of good, scientifically respectable methods for accomplishing even the most extreme organic objectives. "Small cell," in my opinion, just builds foolish confidence, and it makes everything from finding bees to getting them to build their comb right a lot more difficult, and it may even make you dependent on chemically contaminated wax combs. In short, my opinion -- and I know there are people that think "small cell" is the absolute savior of the bee -- just stay entirely away from the whole "small cell" thing. For good, sound information on organic management, I recommend (on the web) the Swiss Bee Research Centre and Randy Oliver's www.scientificbeekeeping.com
I would also second the recommendation of Imirie's "pink pages." His are good, thorough, standard recommendations, especially useful to beginners.
Catherine, you asked if equipment would still be contagious after 20 years. The answer is yes, but the hive may not have had an American foulbrood problem in the first place. American foulbrood (AFB) is the only disease problem that can survive any length of time in a dead hive. The only two ways I know to disinfect for AFB are ethylene dioxide fumigation in a pressure chamber and radiation. What that means for me is that if I find AFB, I burn it. As for whether or not to buy used equipment, there's just that risk that you'll wind up burning it all. If you can get it cheap enough and run that risk, and so long as you're not co-mingling that stuff with a bunch of other new, expensive equipment, you might consider it, but most used stuff has other problems: either it wasn't made to exactly the standard dimensions in the first place, or it's about ready to retire, or it contains residues from chemical treatments (legal or illegal), etc. Especially as a beginner, I'd probably stay away from any used hive parts, ESPECIALLY used combs (where the bees raise their young and store honey, etc.) I really wouldn't worry at all about diseases with other equipment, though, for example: smokers, veils, helmets, coveralls, extractors, books...
As for the number of bees in a hive, there's no practical way to count them, so I think talking about the number of bees in a hive is generally more confusing than useful. For practical purposes, you could talk about the number of pounds of bees (in a package or a swarm) or the number of frames of brood or the number of frames covered with bees (in a hive or nuc=nucleus colony=small/starter hive.)
Two hives is probably a good idea. It will cost a little bit more, but you'll have a point of comparison, you might be able to use one hive to help deal with a problem in the other, and you won't have to start completely from scratch if something happens to one hive. Definitely expect to lose hives. Big commercial beekeepers certainly add stresses to their colonies, but I've talked to thousands of hobby beekeepers, and the average hobbyist loses around 50% of his hive every 12 months. There's no magic, easy answer to defying that (estimated) statistic. The good news is you can multiply your colonies even faster than that average mortality rate. In other words, if for example you lose half your hives over the winter, you could pretty easily multiply out your remaining colonies to restore your numbers and then possibly double your number twice over again and wind up with four times as many hives a year later despite the 50% loss. Of course, there's work in all that.
It's definitely not too late to start with bees this year. It's probably too early for most of the US to actually start; the trouble is going to be finding a source of bees. A lot of suppliers will be booked up already. At this point, folks may fare better trying to deal with a local beekeeper, at least for the bees (as opposed to the woodenware, equipment, etc.) The safest route to go, and what I would probably recommend is either a natural swarm or a "package" (a.k.a. a "shook swarm" or an "artificial swarm".) I say safe, because with a swarm or package you're not getting any wax comb, and that's where you pick up the greatest risk of foulbrood contamination, not to mention nasty chemical residues which could interfere with the performance of the bees or even get transferred to you honey. Also varroa mites, which are a serious problem -- one that every hive in the lower 48 has to deal with to one degree or another -- are going to be much more numerous in a nuc or established hive than in a package or swarm (because they spend most of their time in the brood cells multiplying). Starting off with a lower varroa mite load will make things easier on you, even though you'll have to deal with them sooner or later anyways.
As for "small cell," I think it's a bunch of foolishness. Formal university research continues to debunk the theories, most recently Jennifer Berry's research at the University of Georgia. Most of the people that use "small cell" for varroa mite control are doing other things, too (most notably using "survivor" genetics and even Africanized bees="killer bee" crosses), and those other things, I would say, are the reason they're having whatever success they are. I think a lot of "small cell" proponents are very misleading in the way they promote their theory, so I'd offer a heavy word of warning. There are lots of good, scientifically respectable methods for accomplishing even the most extreme organic objectives. "Small cell," in my opinion, just builds foolish confidence, and it makes everything from finding bees to getting them to build their comb right a lot more difficult, and it may even make you dependent on chemically contaminated wax combs. In short, my opinion -- and I know there are people that think "small cell" is the absolute savior of the bee -- just stay entirely away from the whole "small cell" thing. For good, sound information on organic management, I recommend (on the web) the Swiss Bee Research Centre and Randy Oliver's www.scientificbeekeeping.com
I would also second the recommendation of Imirie's "pink pages." His are good, thorough, standard recommendations, especially useful to beginners.