Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 241 Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Thread Started on Apr 20, 2006, 2:56pm »
Okay, I can understand pot, or crack. But milk????????
Dairy farmer's license returned Thursday, April 20, 2006 John Horton Plain Dealer Reporter
Dairy farmer Arlie Stutzman is back in business.
The Ohio Department of Agriculture on Monday reinstated the Holmes County man's dairy license, which had been revoked in February after Stutzman sold a gallon of raw milk to an undercover state agent. It's illegal to sell unpasteurized milk in Ohio.
The Amish man reapplied for the permit, which was granted following an inspection of his Saltcreek Township farm, officials said.
The Stutzman case gained attention because of a debate regarding access to raw milk in Ohio. Legislation is pending to allow sales of the product; a spokeswoman with the Department of Agriculture said the agency endorses the current ban and maintains that unpasteurized milk is unsafe to drink.
Stutzman is part of a small group of Ohio farmers distributing raw milk to consumers. To do so, they circumvent the law by selling shares in their herds. The state allows a person to drink milk from their own cows.
Stutzman claimed officials targeted him for the undercover sting operation in September because of his involvement in the raw milk movement.
Legal issues remain. The state filed a complaint against Stutzman in Holmes County Common Pleas Court, and a hearing is scheduled for June 30.
Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Female Posts: 5,111 Location: Ohio
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #1 on Apr 20, 2006, 3:28pm »
Ohhh, this is just the tip of the iceburg. Things are getting very heated here. The raw milk bill in the state legislature is giving raw milk a lot of attention in the state government and the ODA is cracking down a lot.
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #2 on Apr 20, 2006, 4:58pm »
That is quite the biased article. Stutzman is Amish. He didn't sell the milk to the agent. Actually, he told the agent that it was illegal to sell raw milk in Ohio, but the agent persisted and Stutzmen gave him the milk because of his beliefs. The agent insisted he take $2.
Our inspector was by yesterday. He was very interested in what we do with our goats. Dad had mentioend to him last year I was working on a goatshare set-up to possibly distribute milk. Even had a group in a nearby town very interested, but he had a conniption fit saying it was illegal, so it didn't happen. Probably wasn't encouraging to see the doubly milk stand I built for the goats this winter. lol I hadn't milked a doe since last February and that milk was going to the two steers. I had cleaned off the stand that morning to milk Ursula. She has triplets on her and I was concerend the smallest, a doeling wasn't getting enough, so I milker her to offer the milk back to the doeling. This should get interesting......
I hope the law passes. I really do. I held my tongue around the inspector though. He is fanatical when it comes to raw milk. Heh, he even included what we do with our goats on his write up. Some farms have slipped goats milk in with the cow's milk in the past (they are close enough test wise that it wasn't detected).
God sometimes leads into troubled waters, not to drown us but to cleanse us.
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 223 Location: Eastern New Mexico
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #3 on Apr 20, 2006, 5:38pm »
"Stutzman claimed officials targeted him for the undercover sting operation in September because of his involvement in the raw milk movement."
Involvement in the raw milk movement??? My goodness, it sounds like its arms dealing or drug smuggling. Rediculous!! Like the government doesnt have better things to spend our tax dollars on! This scripture says it all-
For as churning the milk produces butter, and twisting the nose produces blood, so stirring up anger produces strife. Proverbs 30:33
Has anyone every tried to use pasteurized milk to churn butter? I have it doesnt make butter, it rots. But raw milk isnt safe for us. What does that say about pasteurized and homogenized milk?
Wife to Ralph Homeschool mom to Ashley, Amanda, and Aaron Hand milker to Maggie-Jersey due to calve mid September and Minnie- Mollys Angus and Ayrshire calf Sasha- house princess (loveable mutt) Bailey the weiner dog 2 cats- Boogsey and lil kitty 2 horses- Lucy and foal Bullwinkle and a whole mess of chickens!
Joined: Sept 2004 Gender: Female Posts: 970 Location: East Coast, USA
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #4 on Apr 21, 2006, 7:37am »
Quote:
Has anyone every tried to use pasteurized milk to churn butter? I have it doesnt make butter, it rots. But raw milk isnt safe for us. What does that say about pasteurized and homogenized milk?
JoAnn was very shocked when I mentioned that my children had made butter from whipping cream from the store, but we have, and it worked. Don't think you can do it from milk, tho.
WRT the raw milk controversy--there are so many things going on in the world and they spend so much energy on this?
WRT the raw milk controversy--there are so many things going on in the world and they spend so much energy on this?
Because once the government gains control of an area they are very reluctant to let go. Big government makes jobs for varies inspectors and other pencil pushers.
Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Female Posts: 5,567 Location: SE Nebraska
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #6 on Apr 21, 2006, 3:24pm »
Quote:
The state allows a person to drink milk from their own cows.
As per this quote from the article--the state "allows" a person to drink milk from their own cows?! UGH. How nice of them. Give me a break!!! I feel like a drug dealer sneaking around making and selling 'drugs'. (my milk and eggs.) Yes, I consume RAW milk (heck, Mr. Lawman; I milk the cow myself!) and make butter (of course I consume, that, too! along with the sour cream and other RAW milk goodies I make!) & occasionally barter eggs for feed. What a sad world this is sometimes! Janene who likes to live in her own little undisturbed peaceful world--drinking her milk, etc!
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 264 Location: SE Ohio
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #7 on Apr 21, 2006, 10:44pm »
The ODA man was at our house a few weeks ago. Walking us through the process of getting licensed to milk and to produce cheese.
He spoke at length about the raw milk legislation going on right now. He said that the ODA was going to fight it with everything they have.
He said the only way it would ever pass would be if they managed to get it on the ballet and he didn't see that happening.
As it stands now, in Ohio, I cannot even serve a glass of my milk to a neighbor having dinner with us. Nor give them a bite of my cheese or pass him my butter. All jail-able offenses in my state.
(This is not my interpretation of the law. I specifically asked the ODA man these questions.)
Makes me feel like Alice fallen down the rabbit hole and nothing is as it should be. It's like a world gone mad when my beautiful, pure dairy products - that I've worked so hard to collect and produce - and handled so immaculately - are outlawed.
I'm not an illegal immigrant, making bathtub cheese in southern California with milk of a questionable origin and processed with questionable hygiene and sending countless people to the hospital - cause that IS happening. And, I'm not infecting entire apartment complexes with TB from raw dairy products - cause THAT"S happening, too.
I've got a blood tested, TB tested cow, milked under perfect conditions and I'm producing a top notch product. And, when the weather permits, I shampoo her with Country Apple shower gel from Bath and Body from the mall. She shines like gold and smells just like Country Apple.
But, the state of Ohio says I am the same threat to the community's health as those fellows. It's a bitter pill to swallow.
homestead2
« Last Edit: Apr 21, 2006, 10:49pm by homestead2 »
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #8 on Apr 22, 2006, 5:34am »
Is there another Joann? Speaking of making butter from store bought cream, this is something kindergarten teachers do every year. There is so much gum tr agacanth and cellulose added to the cream to stabilize it that it turns reluctantly, but it does eventually make butter.
Homestead2, the situation in Ohio is beyond bizarre, bureaucracy gone mad, Kafkaesque. Bureaucrats are by definition well defended against reason because they are answerable not to the public but to thier superiors in the department.
We need a celebrity to take up the raw milk cause so that it becomes a sexy issue.
Was it your ODA man who told you of TB outbreaks etc? Something about those stories does not compute. The reality of TB being passsed from cow through a fermented milk product to a remote customer presupposes that this is a viable pathway of disease. And so we have long been told. There is, however, considerable question that this takes place.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 264 Location: SE Ohio
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #9 on Apr 22, 2006, 10:13am »
The particular cheese named in the TB story was Queso Blanco. That story did not come from the ODA man. It came from one of the three licensed farmstead cheese producers in Ohio.
I hesitated to validate it by repeating it.
I have my own reason for questioning it.
When we follow the book for making Queso Blanco, the milk is brought to 180 degrees - (which surpasses - even flash pasturization - which is 165 degrees - which ends the TB problem.)
But, who am I to say that we all make Queso Blanco the same way.
It pains me to repeat even one incident of dairy products causing any health problem - lest I build the case of regulation. My first rebuttal to the TB in the apartment complex was "They could have got and transmitted TB from many sources - why blame the dairy products?"
The response surprised me. "Today, a simple lab test tells whether the TB is of Bovine origin." That's another thing that I'll need to see in print somewhere official before I present that as the gospel.
In the same way that the Weston A. Price group hurts their credibility somewhat by latching on to anecdotal incidents and beating them to death (and, that is said with all due respect for the passion they have for a good cause.) -- so do the Powers that Be - when pushing the agenda of crushing the freedoms of raw milk consumption.
I see the "bathtub cheese" and "apartment complex TB" beat to death by the PTB and also by licensed and inspected producers. It is followed by their "See, that is why we need to regulate this."
How long before our homemade luxury product gets called "bootleg cheese".
Milkmaid to Katika, Canadienne x Jersey born 5/12/2002 George Clooney, foster Jersey bull born 10/23/08 Charles Bronson, foster Jersey bull calf born 9/15/09 Birch, 23-year-old Azteca gelding 5 Romney mutt ewes, 3 Clun Forest ewes, and 1 Clun Forest ram dogs and cat
Joined: Feb 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,655 Location: Massachusetts
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #11 on Apr 22, 2006, 12:23pm »
I should think the Amish would be exempted from such transactions amongst themselves as they are exempted from many other societal requirements (like high school, for instance). How unfortunate that at outsider preyed upon an unsuspecting individual's good will. Perhaps that is why his license was restored?
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #12 on Apr 22, 2006, 8:00pm »
It was reinstated because he had never had any transgressions in the past for his liscence.. Sounds like the judge was not pleased with how it came about either.
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #13 on Apr 22, 2006, 8:27pm »
Queso blanco is most definitely heated to 180F. Most incidences of dairy food contamination are post pasteurization.
I think you do well to question the veracity of those claims about TB. TB is a very tricky disease. It is overwhelmingly a disease of the poor and sick, especially people who already suffer from a debilitating disease such as AIDS. There are thousands of TB caes in NYC and few raw milk users.
Departments of health have a long and regrettable history of ceasing their investigation of sources the minute they discover raw dairy products were consumed by anybody involved.
Re: Don't sell milk to an undercover agent « Reply #14 on Dec 13, 2008, 1:37pm »
Please check out The Milk Book, The milk of human Kindness is not pasturized by William Douglass MD, he is a great proponent of raw milk and has a plethora of references in the back of the book. He is well researched. He claims that the TB scares come from pasturized milk contaminated by human workers after processing, And the TB involved IS quite human, not bovine. Also check the statistics on TB in the US< when I did, I found that TB rose dramatically (the line went nearly verticle on the chart) from 1986, which ironically was the year Reagan allowed amnesty to illegals in the US. (I had a boyfreind at the time trying to get recognized) . So look at the dairy workers. Not that there are very many because so much is mechanized in the commercial dairies, you only need one worker for 300 cows. But if that one worker is not understanding sanitation procedures (I work in hospitals, and I see it all the time, among American born whites as well as anyone else, nobody seems to get it anymore) then it only takes one to innocently cause much damage. I know personally it just takes touching the edge of the bucket rim with a bare hand.
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